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Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

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Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#181

Post by sudosysgen »

ridewinter wrote: post #165
FooBarWidget wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't that easy. It's not just China's government that believes Taiwan is part of China — China's people also believe that. There is a saying that if China is democratic, they would have invaded Taiwan yesterday. Or another saying: if the president lets go of Taiwan, the CCP would be overthrown tomorrow. Another factor that complicates things is the fact that Taiwan is a strategic location for the US's military co…

If China went democratic then Taiwan wouldn't have much issue with becoming part of it, right? Once people taste freedom they tend to not want to give it up, no matter how messy.

Obviously they would. If China was democratic they would probably elect a more repressive and economically left wing government. At least that's until the private sector buys enough political influence.

Democracy != Liberal democracy.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#182

Post by kaonashi »

subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

It's part of their country, but I guess western powers still can't give up the ghost of trying to recolonize China.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#183

Post by LatteLazy »

subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

I'm pretty anti China (or rather anti the CCP). But this is the same everywhere: leaders keep foreign conflicts burning to distract from domestic issues and shore up domestic support.

The UK (my country) does it with 1001 places (Greece and the Elgin Marbles, Argentina and the Falklands, German and WW1 and WW2, France and, well, everything). The US does it with Iran and Cuba. China does it with all it's neighbors.

It's childish and short-termist and dangerous. But it works.

That's what this is. It's Winnie the Pooh rallying support, not an actual political position.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#184

Post by ChemSpider »

627467 wrote: post #173
FooBarWidget wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't that easy. It's not just China's government that believes Taiwan is part of China — China's people also believe that. There is a saying that if China is democratic, they would have invaded Taiwan yesterday. Or another saying: if the president lets go of Taiwan, the CCP would be overthrown tomorrow. Another factor that complicates things is the fact that Taiwan is a strategic location for the US's military co…

You are also missing the part where the Taiwanese have always held an ambiguous stance towards reunification/independence. I would bet that a Scottish-style ref in Taiwan (which would be tantamount to declaration of independence and hence, dead on arrival) may yield a surprising similar response: no majority support for independence.

Nonsense. The only reason why some Taiwanese do not want _formal_ independence now is because China is threating with war.

If China would allow a referendum in Taiwan (accepting any outcome peacefully), there would be 90%+ majority for independence.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#185

Post by jessaustin »

mantas wrote: post #88
albeva wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, it is often ignored that combined EU does possess a huge, highly advanced and well trained military force. So more than that I'd hope EU can then put its squabbling aside and respong in unison to any military provocation as well.

How many aircraft careers does EU have? Especially after Brexit...

The recent conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh proved that the future is here, and no large asset is safe from drones. Even if carriers could deny airspace to cheap tiny airborne loitering munitions (they can't), they have no hope against the submarine variety.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#186

Post by sudosysgen »

jessaustin wrote: post #172
Galanwe wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they just stopped talking about Taiwan I doubt many people in the mainland would care Not at all. For a mainlander, Taiwan _is_ a region of China, think of it as Hawai for the US. People in the west see Taiwan as a separate country that China tries to forcibly absorb. People in mainland see Taiwan as a region of China that tries to be independent. Also, there is a lot of eyes on the Taiwan case from mainlanders…

For a mainlander, Taiwan _is_ a region of China, think of it as Hawai for the US. Where I live in the Midwest USA, nobody would care if Hawai'i claimed its independence in some not-harmful-to-tourists-nor-threatening-to-military-fuel-depots fashion. That doesn't mean it would be easy. Much as was seen in the original USA annexation of Hawai'i, it is very common for interested parties to create violence where none nat…

The issue is that Taiwan is military necessary. If the US is allowed an outpost there they will use the encirclement to threaten China's security.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#187

Post by sfe22 »

satronaut wrote: post #138
notpachet wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omicron is real. It's having very tangible impacts on the ability of countries to provide necessary healthcare services to their citizens. People who normally should be first in line to receive care (cancer patients and the like) are having their critical services interrupted or deferred. Just because you personally don't see the impact doesn't mean it isn't there.

Source please? It sounds like the most mild of all the 99.97% survival rate variants of covid. If you don't want to get sick, then stay home, but don't tell me how to live my life

Totally agree. I think we have been warned more than enough. You afraid? Stay at home and lock down. (Didn’t stay home and) got sick? Your problem if no space is available. Split hospitals 50% covid and continue the rest as usual with limited capacity. We cannot control covid anymore and this was apparent just a few months in. Stop supporting authoritarianism and get real.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#188

Post by zucker42 »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #99
subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

It isn't that easy. It's not just China's government that believes Taiwan is part of China — China's people also believe that. There is a saying that if China is democratic, they would have invaded Taiwan yesterday. Or another saying: if the president lets go of Taiwan, the CCP would be overthrown tomorrow. Another factor that complicates things is the fact that Taiwan is a strategic location for the US's military co…

I don't buy this. If the government would stop making "reunification" so prominent in official rhetoric, eventually there would be room to back down from the hardline view on Taiwan. Maybe not tomorrow, but certainly in 30 or 50 years. The government is feeding the flames of nationalism by making Taiwan such a prominent issue. The reason the CCP won't back down on Taiwan is not because they can't, but exactly because it's an issue which encourages nationalism and internal unity.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#189

Post by akyoan »

VictorPath wrote: post #152
albeva wrote: post #54

I wish whole of EU would declare in unison support for Taiwan. Wonder if China would kick out every single EU nation embassy then?

> I wish whole of EU would declare in unison support for Taiwan. Sure, Spain can take a break from hunting down Catalonian referendum politicians in France, or hunting down the Basque separatists that Franco didn't wipe out in Guernica, and can declare Taiwan should be an independent country. The British PM can visit soldiers in Thiepval, Holywood or other UK barracks in north Ireland and declare support of Taiwan br…

> the northern League wanting to break off from Italy and form another country

This isn't the 90's, that stuff died down when we all united against the africans. [1] There's no separatist movement in Italy other than in fringe groups on Facebook. Definitely much less than "Texas wanting to secede" anyway.

Supporting Taiwan is really not a question of opposing local separatist movements (at least in Italy) as much as just "losing China" and all that it'd entail.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KTI_mZ0v4

This video is satire, racist POV

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#190

Post by verall »

627467 wrote: post #173
FooBarWidget wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't that easy. It's not just China's government that believes Taiwan is part of China — China's people also believe that. There is a saying that if China is democratic, they would have invaded Taiwan yesterday. Or another saying: if the president lets go of Taiwan, the CCP would be overthrown tomorrow. Another factor that complicates things is the fact that Taiwan is a strategic location for the US's military co…

You are also missing the part where the Taiwanese have always held an ambiguous stance towards reunification/independence. I would bet that a Scottish-style ref in Taiwan (which would be tantamount to declaration of independence and hence, dead on arrival) may yield a surprising similar response: no majority support for independence.

This might have been true 10 or even 5 years ago but certainly isn't anymore.
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