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Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

imperial.ac.uk

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Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#131

Post by didjathinkmess »

astrange wrote: post #110
abduhl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument boils down to “well the body learns what it looks like and so discriminates against similar looking viruses with more exposure allowing more targeted responses.” Under this theory, shouldn’t a natural immunity (as obtained from prior infection with alpha/delta) result in better immune response because it has learned “more” way to discriminate than the spike protein? Boosters seem inappropriate if the th…

It might, but you don't want to get natural immunity because that would mean getting sick first. Getting booster shots doesn't simply give you more antibodies, it gives you better ones; each round finds new ways to match the spike protein.

Natural immunity followed by a single dose is the strongest immunity available supposedly. Many of us likely have cross reactive immunity from a previous Coronavirus infection from before the pandemic.

Regarding "better antibodies", that doesn't make any sense to me. More in number perhaps, but better? It's the exact same formula being given as boosters.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#132

Post by chiefalchemist »

mypalmike wrote: post #125
chiefalchemist wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I said that. If I implied that. Please point it out to me.

It's implied by "government promises". What has your government promised wrt covid? Were such failed promises made in bad faith, or due to the fact that covid is a complex and changing global pandemic without clear answers to anyone?

It's not what's said, but what's also said.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-heal...

The current cycle smells like insanity among other things. There are plenty of questions. "What questions?" is not one of them.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#133

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

hackerfromthefu wrote: post #123
robbmorganf wrote: post #12

Does anyone understand why a third dose of the same vaccine improves immunity to Omicron? I'm willing to believe the empirical evidence that boosters make a meaningful difference, but I can't figure out intuitively why the same mRNA a third time helps to address this new spike.

And no one is talking about whether we will be expected to take a fourth and subsequent

No-one really knows that yet. Novel virus is new.

If I had to guess, I would expect another anti-COVID jab in 2022. I expect 1 injection in 2022, maybe in autumn, of a mRNA vaccine, against a strain such as Omicron, that is not original COVID-19-alpha. Not a firm prediction, just a guess at what's IMHO most likely.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#136

Post by CodeGlitch »

cwdegidio wrote: post #117
figaroniguzo wrote: post #5

Anecdotal but I currently have Omicron. I had COVID in March 2021 and got vaccinated in September. I have no symptom except back pain.

I'm fighting it right now myself. Have my initial vaccines and got my booster about a month and a half ago. First two days were terrible, but now it just feels like a cold. What I can't handle is the brain fog. I've been awake enough to do some last minute code reviews for people before we start the Christmas shutdown and they have taken me double/triple the amount of time they usually take me. Answers to questions d…

Both me and my wife are fighting it right now, confirmed via PCR testing. Started as cold like symptoms, but a cold I've never experienced before. Unless I keep up the paracetamol it's unbearable... Not much of a cough for me, but my head is spinning and it's hard to focus on anything.

Lost all sense of taste and smell too.

It's not fun people. We are both fully vaccinated.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#137

Post by CodeGlitch »

tehjoker wrote: post #47
andy_ppp wrote: post #14

Realistically we are probably going to be exposed to Omicron in the next 3 weeks here in the UK, is there much point in having a booster right now? Are we sure that it will actually be providing protection if I got a booster today and got COVID in, say, the next 7 days?

Yes, get it ASAP. You should not assume that you'll get it that soon and therefore it's pointless even if many many people will. The booster also triggers a secondary immune response which rises faster and bigger than the primary response. Get your boosters ASAP! You want to go into this crisis with shields up, weapons online.

I was going to get my UK booster yesterday, but came down with COVID on Tuesday :(

Yeah feeling pretty ill right now.

Rescheduled booster for early Jan, so hopefully that'll mean my immune system will be ready for any future infections.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#138

Post by Volundr »

didjathinkmess wrote: post #131
astrange wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might, but you don't want to get natural immunity because that would mean getting sick first. Getting booster shots doesn't simply give you more antibodies, it gives you better ones; each round finds new ways to match the spike protein.

Natural immunity followed by a single dose is the strongest immunity available supposedly. Many of us likely have cross reactive immunity from a previous Coronavirus infection from before the pandemic. Regarding "better antibodies", that doesn't make any sense to me. More in number perhaps, but better? It's the exact same formula being given as boosters.

We train neural nets on the same training sets for multiple iterations and expect it to come up with new/better connections. When learning a new skill we may meditate on previously solved problems and discover better solutions. Why would the immune system not have the capability to continue experimenting and learning from the same stimulus?

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#139

Post by Izkata »

13years wrote: post #98
triactual wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While anecdotal data isn’t very useful, it is good to remember that people actually do get this disease. It seems like it’s always at arms length in online discussions; that someone else will get it surely, probably due to some implied moral failing, but not OP. Thanks for sharing and I hope you get better soon.

> good to remember that people actually do get this disease. Why does it continue to be significantly important to call this out when the trajectory places Omicron and possible future variants within the realms of cold/flu ?

> and possible future variants within the realms of cold/flu ?

Delta was already "within the realms of" the flu. Omicron so far appears to have shot past that and is on its way to a cold.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#140

Post by astrange »

didjathinkmess wrote: post #131
astrange wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might, but you don't want to get natural immunity because that would mean getting sick first. Getting booster shots doesn't simply give you more antibodies, it gives you better ones; each round finds new ways to match the spike protein.

Natural immunity followed by a single dose is the strongest immunity available supposedly. Many of us likely have cross reactive immunity from a previous Coronavirus infection from before the pandemic. Regarding "better antibodies", that doesn't make any sense to me. More in number perhaps, but better? It's the exact same formula being given as boosters.

Omicron does escape natural immunity + no booster though.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2021.2...

Similarly, immunity to omicron might not be good at the other variants (which are worse for you), which is why reusing the existing boosters instead of making new ones isn't that bad an idea.

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