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Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

chicagotribune.com

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Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#41
post #4

This raises several important issues. The first is that most people don't review things. No matter how easy it is the vast majority of the population just won't do it. The simpler you make it the more that will but the simpler it is the less useful it becomes. This has several important implications. - It makes local hard to scale because your audience size is that much smaller that reviews are far less reliable both…

I think social search has value if we define it differently. In other words, I agree with your assessment. The thing that is social, is search, and has value is something more implicit. It observes the behaviors and decisions of other people, perhaps your friends but perhaps not, and infers recommendations from those. Amazon and netflix already do this in their domains to great success. It will become more prevalent. This is not what most people think of when they say "social search," and this is not the thing that you are (rightly) deriding. But I would imagine that in a decade, this is what will eventually be described with the term "social search."

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#42
post #31

How can a computer evaluate the 'realness' of a review? The idea of Yelp, crowdsourced business reviews, is great, but do we really prefer trusting super active web content contributors, seeking cyberspace attention, over experts (eg Zagats)?

I think they do things like filter out reviews from a user that has only posted one review, or if your name appears to be fake, etc. But who knows how exactly their algorithm works. They're afraid of competitors leaving negative reviews for a business and there's probably something to that, but there's no transparency about it. And they've been doing the extortion thing for a while now: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/20…

Why downvoted?

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#43
post #4

This raises several important issues. The first is that most people don't review things. No matter how easy it is the vast majority of the population just won't do it. The simpler you make it the more that will but the simpler it is the less useful it becomes. This has several important implications. - It makes local hard to scale because your audience size is that much smaller that reviews are far less reliable both…

"The problem is that comScore (and now Yelp) have an economic incentive to get people to advertise such that they are not impartial and site therefore cannot be trusted."

That's a key part of it. They do two things: keep track of a "fair score," and sell to some of the businesses being scored. It's an inherent conflict of interest. And they have not taken any steps to mitigate it.

Google faces the same problem, but the AdWords auction mechanism diffuses the COI so the temptation to extortion is mitigated.

As some have pointed out farther down, newspapers and magazines have the same problem. Serious newspapers have a wall between editorial and advertising to mitigate the COI.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#44

Extortion. This is the racket of the 21st Century. Once you got the eyeballs, you call every business in your database and threaten to cut its legs out from under it unless it pays up. Google's running more or less the same racket. It's "soft"...there are no threats, exactly. But imagine if the Chicago Tribune called vendors and threatened to run a miserable review of them if they didn't pay? So why hasn't that happe…

Am I the only one who believes that yelp is prolly telling the truth and that it was just a coincidence? It sounds quite plausible to me that their algorithms work in the way, that are described in the article.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#45
post #38
post #16

The article could have revealed that of the 18 "hidden" reviews, 14 were the only review by the Yelper and 11 were in a one week period. These are two of the main criteria for Yelp's filtering. I'm surprised people believe that Yelp would be so clumsy and unethical to simply penalize non-advertisers.

I'm surprised people think they wouldn't. They have the perfect hideout. Whatever the case they can always blame it on the "algorithm," and short of auditing their source code, nobody can really prove them otherwise.

Not that perfect of a hideout. I'd love to see someone collect data for cases where they think Yelp is intentionally manipulating reviews and see how many cases aren't easily explained by good filtering criteria.

[Full-disclosure: I'm friends with a good number of Yelp engineers who I expect would leave rather than take part in these such things, but I don't know any more about their codebase than any other non-Yelper.]

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#46
post #19
post #8

Earlier this summer, a Yelp salesman called Brader's house to ask if he wanted to advertise on the Yelp site. Yelp will never make it as a public company, which means that it should technically fizzle and die sooner rather than later. What they do isn't illegal, but it should be; its revenue model is unethical, sleazy, blackmailing, extortion.

Those are some pretty bold accusations based on rather thin evidence. Are you suggesting that such a service is incapable of running above-board? Is there anything Yelp could do to prove to you that it is operating in an ethical and reasonable manner?

Yelp seems to have had a lot of bad press for this kind of thing and has had at least one class action suit, alleging extortion, levelled against it:

http://yelpscam.com/negative-yelp-press.html

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#47
post #4

This raises several important issues. The first is that most people don't review things. No matter how easy it is the vast majority of the population just won't do it. The simpler you make it the more that will but the simpler it is the less useful it becomes. This has several important implications. - It makes local hard to scale because your audience size is that much smaller that reviews are far less reliable both…

>>It's why I think companies like Google (disclaimer: I work for Google) should stay out the content business. Isn't AdSense content business?

Not really. And even if so, doesn't change the meaning or validity of the comment.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#48

Extortion. This is the racket of the 21st Century. Once you got the eyeballs, you call every business in your database and threaten to cut its legs out from under it unless it pays up. Google's running more or less the same racket. It's "soft"...there are no threats, exactly. But imagine if the Chicago Tribune called vendors and threatened to run a miserable review of them if they didn't pay? So why hasn't that happe…

Yep, it's the modern day version of the good old fashioned shakedown. Maybe not as ruthless as the mafia of the 1930s, but the basic idea remains the same.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#49

In case you want to dig in deeper, Frank Brader's dog business on Yelp now has 4 stars from 5 reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/haus-von-brader-dog-obedience-traini... Justin G, the negative reviewer, was a Yelp Elite member from 2006-2008: http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=z25c9TyWY1TdVEGxkj34...

I'd get rid of the punitive filtering too if negative press came out.

I wonder if "Elite" indicates paid? Yelp does pay, or has paid in the past, some reviewers.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#50

In case you want to dig in deeper, Frank Brader's dog business on Yelp now has 4 stars from 5 reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/haus-von-brader-dog-obedience-traini... Justin G, the negative reviewer, was a Yelp Elite member from 2006-2008: http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=z25c9TyWY1TdVEGxkj34...

I'd get rid of the punitive filtering too if negative press came out. I wonder if "Elite" indicates paid? Yelp does pay, or has paid in the past, some reviewers.

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