Live data from Hacker News

Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

blog.chainalysis.com

171–180 of 364 posts

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#171
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trust in the DeFi economy I thought the whole point was to be trustless?

Having trust in a system is different from trusting individual actors. You have to trust something , there’s no way around it.

It may be technically different, but it’s no different at all for the average consumer who hasn’t done a threat analysis.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#172
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing annoys me more than arrogant ignorance. It's like, pick one! You speak as if these are handled as federal matters, and they are not. Contract disputes are handed as local matters, usually in a local district court. Furthermore, when you talk about the court you're talking about a Judge. The Judge gets final say and they can take their sweet time, regard or disregard anything they want. In local matters, Judge…

No that's not how it works. The same basic rules of contract law apply in federal, state, and local courts with only minor variations.

It is how it works. The rules don't matter; the attorneys know what words to say to give a judge reasons to either admit or reject application of any rule. The coin that remains in a case is likeability and making the judge's life easier.

The net result is a system where attorneys are falling over themselves to prove who is more obsequious to all the judges. If you become a problem in one case, you will suffer in your other cases, too, so individuals with legit complaints against the court can and will be ignored.

The net result is a court that ignores all but the most mechanical rules (and loves to stall on those when it can, because it approximates the appearance of "work"), and has no mechanism for correction. I'm sorry, but the rules don't really matter, to anyone.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socially acceptable. Because I am not going to acknowledge or respect a Turkish summons. Although I would expect a Turkish hit squad. >You cannot legally rob a bank just because they left it unlocked and unmanned. Exactly - because it isn't a bank, it is a bunch of cash on the street, if it was unlocked and unmanned. And even if there was a clear Sticky Note with foreboding text, you would be in the clear to pocket a…

I found someone's car keys in the street this morning. I'm pretty sure that didn't entitle me to their car.

No, because keys for a car and keys for a wallet are wholly different, and even then, picking a lock (bruteforcing a keyspace) isn't comparable, because the value, intent, and purpose of a car is not in its properties of being able to be transferred, transmitted, and it's future value increasing (although that last one is true incidentally), but it is primarily used to get from A to B.

If you found a gift card with the PIN in the street, it would entitle you to a moral inhibition. If you went through a stack of discarded gift cards and found ones with change, you would be less morally wrong, but just as legally right.

Finding a debit card in the street with the PIN is akin to finding someone's wallet.dat file on their github. That is stealing, so no comparison.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#174
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously don't understand basic contract law. US Civil courts routinely apply the principle of equity when interpreting written contracts. Loopholes and errors are disregarded when they violate the clear intent of the agreement.

Nothing annoys me more than arrogant ignorance. It's like, pick one! You speak as if these are handled as federal matters, and they are not. Contract disputes are handed as local matters, usually in a local district court. Furthermore, when you talk about the court you're talking about a Judge. The Judge gets final say and they can take their sweet time, regard or disregard anything they want. In local matters, Judge…

If that were true, it would not be possible to run a sustainable business in any industry. Legal systems need to generate consistent results with respect to contract law in order for commerce to be successful and efficient.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#175
post #110

The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. But there is a legitimate question of how much law enforcement these crimes deserve. Arizona has a stupid motorists law [1]. If a car “becomes stranded after driving around barricades to enter a flooded stretch of roadway,” the driver “may be charged for the cost of their rescue.” A similar concept for crypto may be necessary. Law enforcement will pursue. B…

> The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. No, they're not. They're entirely reasonable. Stop trying to shame people for expressing a common, reasonable and fair opinion that you don't like.

> They're entirely reasonable

I agree. They are not unreasonable. They are crass. If a child is told not to touch a stove and then burns herself, I may consider them stupid, but I can still have sympathy for the pain they are experiencing.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because it requires introspection, its intentionally a dig at people that rationalize why someone's windfall is "not actually a windfall" like the people who say "$X is not that much these days" (it is and they want it) "That billionaire doesn't really have that much money" (billionaire then sells 10% of their holdings in 3 days for billions of USD) "What about after taxes?" (pay for an accountant, you'll see its bet…

> its intentionally a dig at people So you're intentionally being insulting, then. And you see that as necessary ?

It moves the needle. the predictable alternative is that I get into an argument about liquidity with someone that doesn't know this market. the predictable thing is to pull up an article from 5 years ago about the thinness of the crypto market, because google tells you what you want to see. the predictable thing is to not know about large OTC trades done specifically to show the depth of the market, or not know about the dark pools at all. the predictable thing is to then demand a source, which is not possible due to the very nature of dark pools, and then act like that validates their incorrect reality.

my dig is about introspection, how many other times have they made an excuse to miss all the alpha? are they actually comfortable with the decisions they've made, maybe they are. it just gives them an out to believe whatever they want. sentiment in the crypto space has generally gone this direction right now. everyone is aware of all the arguments against being in the space from traditional finance minded folks, and simply check their stocks and their crypto on two separate screens daily anyway.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#177

The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. But there is a legitimate question of how much law enforcement these crimes deserve. Arizona has a stupid motorists law [1]. If a car “becomes stranded after driving around barricades to enter a flooded stretch of roadway,” the driver “may be charged for the cost of their rescue.” A similar concept for crypto may be necessary. Law enforcement will pursue. B…

Yes let's keep making weird incentives for law enforcement like asset forfeiture. I want police to be like an American ambulance and run my credit card before saving my life.

Probably even "instead" instead of "before": dead people don't complain (their relatives might though)

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#178
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having trust in a system is different from trusting individual actors. You have to trust something , there’s no way around it.

It may be technically different, but it’s no different at all for the average consumer who hasn’t done a threat analysis.

In general, one shouldn't "invest" in things one doesn't understand very well.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#179
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when scamming is something we should be ok with?

100% of Crypto "investors" are speculators looking for a quick buck by investing in a system that is pumping needlessly huge amount of carbon into the atmosphere. They're not well-meaning victims who stumbled into the bad part of town, they are greedy thoughtless people in search of free money.

I think that’s unfair.

They may be in search of outsized returns, but I think people can absolutely be victims of the ‘have fun staying poor’ meme. The implication is that if you don’t buy into crypto your assets will be decimated by inflation. I think it’s reasonable to consider that it’s not ‘greed’ but rather fear of being left behind that is driving many victims.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#180
post #123
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. No, they're not. They're entirely reasonable. Stop trying to shame people for expressing a common, reasonable and fair opinion that you don't like.

But shaming victims is acceptable?

They are only victims of their own greed and ignorance. It's like ending up in the hospital because you chose not to get vaccinated against COVID: People have been trying to warn you for years, but you wouldn't listen, and now you are paying the price.
Post reply on HN