I often wonder to what extent scams like this have positive externalities, insofar as the people who get scammed were perhaps unlikely to allocate capital in socially efficient ways.
Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
91–100 of 364 posts
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Use a trusted exchange if you are worried about that. Holding crypto in a wallet is the equivalent of keeping cash in your wallet. No bank in the world will care if someone steals your wallet.
Everyone should be worried about that, and if your suggestion is to use exchanges, that just makes them de-facto banks. Now you have a traditional banking system on top of a slow and expensive settlement layer.
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#93The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. But there is a legitimate question of how much law enforcement these crimes deserve. Arizona has a stupid motorists law [1]. If a car “becomes stranded after driving around barricades to enter a flooded stretch of roadway,” the driver “may be charged for the cost of their rescue.” A similar concept for crypto may be necessary. Law enforcement will pursue. B…
Social engineering and financial hacks are not fair game, and are "illicit" in the sense that crypto is obviously an international martial zone.
Exhaustively brute forcing a keyspace is valid, making your username an XSS to steal funds from an insecure page/downstream app is not valid.
Finding and leveraging an exploit in a contract is valid, both a paper/legal contract and a literal codified Eutherem contract. Flashing incorrect token prices on CoinMarketCap.com to take advantage of (unauthorized? grey) downstream screenscrapers and rugpulling affected tokens is NOT valid, but, admittedly murkier.
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#94I really hate to say it, but I have little sympathy for the victims here. They wanted a moon shot, wild west, libertarian paradise and got ... robbed with no recourse. Many more than once.
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#95This is my biggest complaint against cryptocurrencies in general. I'm happy with my bank's fraud protection. How can crypto users protect themselves without recreating traditional banking? Bitcoin was released ~13 years ago, and wallet/transaction security has been one of the most important requirements since then (along with scalability, but let's not go there). If trillion dollar market caps and god-knows-how-many…
from my perspective, you are comparing a user experience that has nothing to do with the technology.
a bank is a third party service providing custody to bearer instruments.
a future financial institution will be a third party service providing custody or other protections to your crypto bearer instruments.
> If trillion dollar market caps and god-knows-how-many billions of investment couldn't figure out how to protect consumers after 13 years...
there are DeFi insurance protocols, many people get paid back after being scammed, rug pulled, exploited. Look at the source, it is convenient for this to not be mentioned as all chainanalysis does is sell fear to governments to land contracts.
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#96The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. But there is a legitimate question of how much law enforcement these crimes deserve. Arizona has a stupid motorists law [1]. If a car “becomes stranded after driving around barricades to enter a flooded stretch of roadway,” the driver “may be charged for the cost of their rescue.” A similar concept for crypto may be necessary. Law enforcement will pursue. B…
The flipside of that is that the effective capital markets we have depend on a level of trust which could easily be eroded. There were weeks this year where I saw advertisements all over London for DeFi products and cryptocurrency trading portals. I don't think the majority of people putting money in there had any idea whatsoever what they were doing.
It's certainly not the government's job to jump in and prop up financial systems in which it's not involved. Its interest is in protecting its own citizens from criminality, not in the level of "trust" in "DeFi".
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the way you protect yourself is the same way people protected themselves before credit cards were widely used. By not spending your cash on things that are scams. Somehow people managed to survive before banks offered their rent seeking / fraud protection and I think they'd be OK without them if push came to shove.
In the US, banking scams and crashes were very common before the various reforms enacted in the early 20th century. Wildcat banks in the west printed money with reckless abandon, which quickly became completely worthless. Bank runs were pretty common, due to a low overall confidence in the banking system. And a worker in 19th century America was lucky if they were paid in actual money, instead of a company scrip.
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
The flipside of that is that the effective capital markets we have depend on a level of trust which could easily be eroded. There were weeks this year where I saw advertisements all over London for DeFi products and cryptocurrency trading portals. I don't think the majority of people putting money in there had any idea whatsoever what they were doing.
That's a bit circular though. I mean, to be clear I don't agree with the upthread point that we should deemphasize crypto crimes. But that said... the trust in the DeFi economy is being eroded right now , and for some very rational reasons. It's certainly not the government's job to jump in and prop up financial systems in which it's not involved. Its interest is in protecting its own citizens from criminality, not i…
I thought the whole point was to be trustless?
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#99This is my biggest complaint against cryptocurrencies in general. I'm happy with my bank's fraud protection. How can crypto users protect themselves without recreating traditional banking? Bitcoin was released ~13 years ago, and wallet/transaction security has been one of the most important requirements since then (along with scalability, but let's not go there). If trillion dollar market caps and god-knows-how-many…
Cryptocoins are deliberately based on the concept of money reduced to "cash". There is no banking, there is no fraud protection. It is supposed to work that way. The whole at least somewhat civilized world has moved to a more advanced versions of money, but cryptocoins are a step backwards and it is entirely intentional.
I'd never mail cash for that purpose.
Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”
#100And there are many ponzis out there. Celsius Network ($25billion) being the biggest one. Read more: https://rorodi.substack.com/p/the-biggest-crypto-lending-com...
There are definitely ponzi schemes in defi, but I'm not sure celsius is one just because they pay what seem on face to be impossible rates. Gemini, which is regulated and based out of NYC, offers 8% on GUSD, their USD stablecoin. My understanding is returns on this come from a huge demand for crypto lending from institutions participating in the "basis trade", and a limited supply of USD lending available to them for…
Default meaning, the Gemini coin will be worthless when you try to withdraw. You could try to ride 8% junk bonds for 3-24 months too.