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Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

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Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#121

Post by antognini »

sroussey wrote: post #92
BoppreH wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should be worried about that, and if your suggestion is to use exchanges, that just makes them de-facto banks. Now you have a traditional banking system on top of a slow and expensive settlement layer.

Slow and expensive is relative… try transferring money internationally.

Even within the US, ACH settlement times are 3 business days. The settlement period for stock trades is 2 business days and there's a big push to reduce it to 1. Relative to that, bitcoin's 10 minute settlement time isn't so long.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#123

Post by jakeva »

mdoms wrote: post #110
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53

The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. But there is a legitimate question of how much law enforcement these crimes deserve. Arizona has a stupid motorists law [1]. If a car “becomes stranded after driving around barricades to enter a flooded stretch of roadway,” the driver “may be charged for the cost of their rescue.” A similar concept for crypto may be necessary. Law enforcement will pursue. B…

> The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. No, they're not. They're entirely reasonable. Stop trying to shame people for expressing a common, reasonable and fair opinion that you don't like.

But shaming victims is acceptable?

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#124

Post by beardog »

arthur6667 wrote: post #81
kyruzic wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use a trusted exchange if you are worried about that. Holding crypto in a wallet is the equivalent of keeping cash in your wallet. No bank in the world will care if someone steals your wallet.

Right. I did that. And got scammed. I had my BTC in a trusted exchange at the time. Then they dissappeared on me. Then I was told it was my own fault for using an exchange. You just can't win this game can you..

ding ding! If you keep it in exchange and it gets stolen, it's your fault for daring to trust your fellow human. If you keep it yourself and it gets stolen, it's your fault for not having a multisignature hardware wallet stored in 5 different countries with armed guards.

Ok i'm exaggerating of course, it just seems like some people are not willing to admit that cryptocurrency does not address certain things that people want out of a money/payments system.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#125

Post by damidekronik »

mdoms wrote: post #110
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53

The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. But there is a legitimate question of how much law enforcement these crimes deserve. Arizona has a stupid motorists law [1]. If a car “becomes stranded after driving around barricades to enter a flooded stretch of roadway,” the driver “may be charged for the cost of their rescue.” A similar concept for crypto may be necessary. Law enforcement will pursue. B…

> The “I have no sympathy for the victims” comments are crass. No, they're not. They're entirely reasonable. Stop trying to shame people for expressing a common, reasonable and fair opinion that you don't like.

Since when scamming is something we should be ok with?

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#126

Post by Jerrrry »

opportune wrote: post #109
Jerrrry wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical hacks against the protocol and implementations are fair game, and is the implicit incentive that balances the market. Social engineering and financial hacks are not fair game, and are "illicit" in the sense that crypto is obviously an international martial zone. Exhaustively brute forcing a keyspace is valid, making your username an XSS to steal funds from an insecure page/downstream app is not valid. Findi…

Fair game and valid according to whom? You cannot legally rob a bank just because they left it unlocked and unmanned. It might be possible to take crypto due to a bug in a protocol, and arguably justifiable, but that doesn’t mean it would hold up in court if you were identified as the one using the exploit.

Socially acceptable. Because I am not going to acknowledge or respect a Turkish summons. Although I would expect a Turkish hit squad.

>You cannot legally rob a bank just because they left it unlocked and unmanned.

Exactly - because it isn't a bank, it is a bunch of cash on the street, if it was unlocked and unmanned.

And even if there was a clear Sticky Note with foreboding text, you would be in the clear to pocket a stack of cash sitting on the sidewalk, left unattended, guarded only with a sticky note.

The steelman and strawman are nearly identical - a bugged contract or implementation isn't a bank, it is a bunch of cash on the street. It stopped being a bank once a bug was found.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#127

Post by annexrichmond »

vmception wrote: post #102
alex_young wrote: post #86

The $7.7B part is a bit hyperbolic right? A lot of value of crypto is based on a small volume of transactions to cash which give a number to the entire asset. If I create 1B secret numbers, sell one for $1, and someone steals the rest, is anyone really out a billion dollars?

lol sure if that helps you sleep at night about the decisions you've made in your life thus far. it's not hyperbolic, there is a lot of liquidity in this multi trillion dollar market. although if you're asking this question, the next point might dilute my prior point to you, but a reality is that many people aren't seeking fiat. They don't want dollars. They want more crypto. For physical goods and services there are…

> lol sure if that helps you sleep at night about the decisions you've made in your life thus far.

Why was this necessary to say at all?

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#128

Post by deltree7 »

BoppreH wrote: post #99
friendzis wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocoins are deliberately based on the concept of money reduced to "cash". There is no banking, there is no fraud protection. It is supposed to work that way. The whole at least somewhat civilized world has moved to a more advanced versions of money, but cryptocoins are a step backwards and it is entirely intentional.

No, cryptocurrencies are reduced to "mailing cash to an anonymous postbox", which has a lot fewer guarantees. I'm happy giving cold hard cash to buy something from a brick-and-mortar store to be delivered in the future. I'd never mail cash for that purpose.

Bingo!

There are If I pay $Cash for Goods, In a trustless network, both side of the exchange have to be instantaneous. I can never pay cryptocurrency for any item that are not verifiable by the network itself, unless there is another trusted 3rd party (cough cough, Credit Card Processors/Banks).

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#129

Post by woodruffw »

It would be as (if not more) fascinating to see an estimate of the true costs here, corrected for wash trading and market manipulation.

My outsider's perspective is that the entire thing seems like a shyster's market: scammers scamming scammers, with yet other scammers deciding how much each scammer has gained or lost with only loose ties to ingoing or outgoing money.

Re: Cryptocurrency scams cost owners $7.7B in 2021, driven by DeFi-based “rug pulls”

#130

Post by lottin »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #71

Maybe I'm missing something, but there's something that I don't get about DeFi. My understanding of the idea is this: 1) Using distributed code, the operation of which is assured by code on a blockchain based system like Ethereum, lending and investment can happen without the intermediation of banks and capital markets gate keepers. The savings from cutting these layers out can be shared between the supply and demand…

DeFi is not well-suited to do finance, i.e. lending and borrowing, because enforcing financial contracts typically requires the ability to exert coercive power, which DeFi can't do. As a result, DeFi can only implement a small subset of not super-useful financial operations. It cannot replace conventional finance by any stretch of the imagination.
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