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Opt Out of Cynicism

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Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#211

Post by hoseja »

ratww wrote: post #197
jacknews wrote: post #12

I don't think cynicism is just about stasis, but about spotting when optimistic messages are hiding a power-grabbing scheme of some kind. Or just being willing to 'follow the money', and look behind the curtain, etc. Plenty of new things are important developments, even when there are selfish actors behind them. But also plenty of new things are just scams.

> about spotting when optimistic messages are hiding a power-grabbing scheme of some kind IMO that's not being cynical. That's actually an universally positive trait: being able to spot power-grabbing schemes. The problem with the negative side of cynicism described in the article is that, (to follow your example) the power-grabbing scheme is not the thing being detected, but rather the display of optimism. Every dis…

That is what is derogatorily called cynicism in the OP. Perhaps as one studies history they find that all forms of positive change conceivable by mere humans have been co-opted and are accounted for in the extremely energetic struggle of the system to remain alive, as it has been selected for very much Darwinistically.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#212

Post by hoseja »

tekromancr wrote: post #107
jacknews wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes maybe my definition is wrong, I consider myself slightly cynical (I lived to see the excitement of cyberspace turn into Facebook after all), but perhaps I mean skeptical, although to me what you're talking about is more nihilism. There are some things that really don't change, and I guess that can be a source of cynicism. The poor will always be among you, lying politicians, the greedy rich, etc. But I'd argue th…

That is the epitome of fixed-mindset. We live in a world on near limitless abundance. We already live in a potential post-scarcity world. The only reason there are poor among us IS the greedy rich; but the greedy rich isn't some faceless, abstract, unkillable cosmic god. They have names and addresses; what they have can be taken from them as has happened many many times throughout history. Things can change, sometime…

The Norman nobles that were part of William's conquest are still better off, thousand years later.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#213

Post by matheusmoreira »

The_Colonel wrote: post #185
matheusmoreira wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a cynic may think that media’s only purpose is to sells your attention to advertisers Thinking this makes me a cynic? I don't think so. This is a fact that gets proven right every day on the internet. If anything I'm a hopelessly deluded optimist who thinks the web can actually go back to its pure beginnings when people said what they wanted without worrying that some advertiser will pull their funding.

Yes, it is cynical to see only this side of the coin. What about passionate creators who use advertising as a means to finance their vocation? What about the wide informational and educational value of media?

> What about passionate creators who use advertising as a means to finance their vocation?

They need to find new business models.

> What about the wide informational and educational value of media?

It's great but also a relatively tiny minority of all content. A niche really. And even those tend have ads.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#214

Post by tekkk »

I realized I may be that much of an optimist that I don't even really understand what's it like to be a cynic. To me it seems a cynic, from how the author describes them, is a total downer and asshole who I wouldn't want to be around with it.

Having healthy grasp of reality to me is in no way harmful. On the contrary, it should be desired. Perhaps it's the hopeless atmosphere in countries with high corruption and badly working government which just saps your hope, and you stop believing things could actually work if people worked for common good.

As I myself do have a snarky view of the current world politics and whatnot but still can enjoy things, don't really complain, put things in trash bins and help strangers and so forth.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#216

Post by mda »

jd115 wrote: post #168

LOLz well done, selling happy faces to the most cynical crowd on the internet :D Look at these comments! My oh-my. Seriously though, good piece - if a bit shallow. It's a good start. People need to hear this. Cynicism is the only evil in the world. The opposite, of course, is innocence - and, since this can't exist in pure form, the closest second is gullibility. Not ONE person here will agree that gullibility is a g…

I am not sure throwing slogans really help making a coherent argument.

Cynicism is the only evil in the world? I am cynically rolling my eyes on this one.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#217

Post by The_Colonel »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #213
The_Colonel wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is cynical to see only this side of the coin. What about passionate creators who use advertising as a means to finance their vocation? What about the wide informational and educational value of media?

> What about passionate creators who use advertising as a means to finance their vocation? They need to find new business models. > What about the wide informational and educational value of media? It's great but also a relatively tiny minority of all content. A niche really. And even those tend have ads.

> They need to find new business models.

Not if it works for both sides.

> It's great but also a relatively tiny minority of all content. A niche really. And even those tend have ads.

I disagree.

And even if it was true, why do you care? I mean, I watch almost only this kind of videos on YouTube - documentaries, education (learning German ATM), infotainment and there's a huge amount of it. Niche or not, there is still more than enough quality content to watch 24h/day.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#218

Post by ratww »

hoseja wrote: post #211
ratww wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about spotting when optimistic messages are hiding a power-grabbing scheme of some kind IMO that's not being cynical. That's actually an universally positive trait: being able to spot power-grabbing schemes. The problem with the negative side of cynicism described in the article is that, (to follow your example) the power-grabbing scheme is not the thing being detected, but rather the display of optimism. Every dis…

That is what is derogatorily called cynicism in the OP. Perhaps as one studies history they find that all forms of positive change conceivable by mere humans have been co-opted and are accounted for in the extremely energetic struggle of the system to remain alive, as it has been selected for very much Darwinistically.

> That is what is derogatorily called cynicism in the OP.

Then, there are clearly two things being called cynicism here.

Arguing that the author is wrong because X is good when the author is actually talking about Y is a fruitless exercise.

> Perhaps as one studies history they find that all forms of positive change conceivable by mere humans have been co-opted and are accounted for in the extremely energetic struggle of the system to remain alive, as it has been selected for very much Darwinistically.

That still doesn't and won't ever mean that positive change is negative. If you're still throwing the baby with a bathwater, you're the bad kind of cynic.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#219

Post by iamacyborg »

The_Colonel wrote: post #174
jd115 wrote: post #168

LOLz well done, selling happy faces to the most cynical crowd on the internet :D Look at these comments! My oh-my. Seriously though, good piece - if a bit shallow. It's a good start. People need to hear this. Cynicism is the only evil in the world. The opposite, of course, is innocence - and, since this can't exist in pure form, the closest second is gullibility. Not ONE person here will agree that gullibility is a g…

> The ones who fight corruption are the most corrupt. I can understand the other points, but not this one. Can you expand on that?

It's a nice catchy slogan that falls apart at the tiniest scrutiny.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#220

Post by oblio »

jihadjihad wrote: post #45
jean_valje4n wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then there was Caesar who promised the pirates who captured him that he would be back. And he did come back for them. I suppose his ending wasn't the greatest, but Dante placed his betrayers into a special place in literary hell.

I didn't know this story so I looked it up [0]. According to Plutarch, it's true: Caesar was captured by pirates in his twenties, and was insulted by their lowball ransom of 20 talents--he thought he was worth at least 50. He told the pirates they should up the ransom and that once it was delivered and he was freed, he'd have them all crucified. They thought it was a pretty good joke. He wasn't joking. Once free, he…

It's actually an extreme case of privilege. The pirates were probably some very poor commoners who turned to a life of crime, while he was a member of one of the most powerful political families in Ancient Rome.

His upbringing was nothing like that of what were probably children the dirt poor farmers.

He was lucky that no one snapped (I imagine some did but the thought of such a huge amount of money meant that everyone was kept in line) and the rest is just a bold and vengeful ultra rich, ultra privileged person getting their revenge.

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