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Opt Out of Cynicism

dimitarsimeonov.com

101–110 of 336 posts

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#102

I'm pretty sure I fall into the definition of a cynic given in the piece "according to cynics, the world operates in a certain way, the elites are always the same, and will always be the same. The cynics think we are always playing the same game that has always been played. For example, a cynic may think that media’s only purpose is to sells your attention to advertisers - like I did here. And often they might be rig…

> I think I'd rather have what I'd consider a realistic and true view of the world as it is rather than anything else.

You say that but a realistic and true view of the world will show that things have indeed changed for the better for a lot of marginalized people -- and within our lifetimes, too. It's definitely not "always the same", to paraphrase the author. If you think it is, you may be the kind of person the author is referring to.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#103

I'm pretty sure I fall into the definition of a cynic given in the piece "according to cynics, the world operates in a certain way, the elites are always the same, and will always be the same. The cynics think we are always playing the same game that has always been played. For example, a cynic may think that media’s only purpose is to sells your attention to advertisers - like I did here. And often they might be rig…

I agree with you completely. I think that I am also a cynic based on this article but certainly an optimistic cynic. I believe fully that things can but we will have to work together(which is admittedly a very difficult thing to do) and also be very smart about the changes we make. I would argue that choosing to ignore the reality of things and to not be cynical would ultimately make change harder to achieve. Working smarter not harder, after all.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#104
post #81
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP here, thanks a lot for sharing this enlightening story. Your last paragraph remind me also of the Viktor Frankl's "Man Search For Meaning" where the change in outlook was a difference between persevering and perishing in the camps.

> Your last paragraph remind me also of the Viktor Frankl's "Man Search For Meaning" where the change in outlook was a difference between persevering and perishing in the camps. Which is complete and utter nonsense. Sure, it makes for nice advertising for Frankl's Logotherapy shtick but it's not an accurate picture of what happened in the camps.

I suppose you were there with Frankl and can tell us all about it and how you managed to survive. Did you ask to have your ladle of soup scooped "from the bottom" or did you have a superior strategy for survival?

Your comment is a vacuous, bald assertion that Frankl is "nonesense" and his ideas were a "schtick". Next time you comment, consider shedding light on the matter rather than merely smearing and adumbrating.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#106
I use a style of cynicism to maintain access to early growth. Things that grow typically do so explosively and in a non-linear way from very small initial states. "From shit, flowers grow," is an adage I use a lot, and you need exposure to the shit to get exposure to the growth. However, after a while, it does make my views smell a bit after spending that much time in it.

However, let's say Santa Claus is a vast conspiracy by parents to decieve children, and while nobody could seriously believe any group that large could keep that secret, generation after generation does it. Christmas happens every year one way or another. We go along with it because we are emasculated liars, with our ugly sweaters and insufferable canned music, bending to the objectively absurd narrative that defies basic rationality and physics, one as implausible as the origin story of some deranged peninsular dictator, all so as not to be isolated and exiled. We justify our participation in the lie, one that teaches children to normalize disappointment, that their parents construct elaborate webs of nested deceptions to get their attention, and that the gifts aren't for you, they are to make themselves happy. Your parents are joy-vampires.

That was meant to sound unhinged, but it's to illustrate the point that cynicism can be convincingly simulated without a lot of effort, which means it is a pattern of thought that is necessarily one of many you can actively choose from. It's funny, but it also can become a vice, where it can become a substitute for humor (ask how I know). The other adage I use a lot is that if you smell shit everywhere you go, check your shoes.

The test I would use is, if you can figure out how to make money or even find joy from a hypothesis predicated on the contrarian - but still fact - that Santa isn't real, you may have healthy cynicism, and I'd be very interested in hearing it. Chances are you can't, and the best we can do is become a Santa truther, where we tell people Christmas was an inside job, and we only invented the Easter bunny to convince us that the rest is real.

Cynicism can be very valuable, but I don't think we can understand the value of it as a tool without being able to also laugh about it, because (imo) the humor is the only way to be really sure the cynicism isn't the only tool we have.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#107
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP here, if you're able to separate the act of "look behind the curtain" from the visceral feeling that things can change and you can be the one improving them - then I'm very happy for you. I personally found it hard to separate the two for many year, and fell in the pattern of unifying them. Cynical outlook has been a helpful protecting mechanism, though no longer as useful, as I'm trying to find and play more win-…

Yes maybe my definition is wrong, I consider myself slightly cynical (I lived to see the excitement of cyberspace turn into Facebook after all), but perhaps I mean skeptical, although to me what you're talking about is more nihilism. There are some things that really don't change, and I guess that can be a source of cynicism. The poor will always be among you, lying politicians, the greedy rich, etc. But I'd argue th…

That is the epitome of fixed-mindset.

We live in a world on near limitless abundance. We already live in a potential post-scarcity world.

The only reason there are poor among us IS the greedy rich; but the greedy rich isn't some faceless, abstract, unkillable cosmic god. They have names and addresses; what they have can be taken from them as has happened many many times throughout history.

Things can change, sometimes slowly, sometimes incredibly quickly.

We have seen the impossible become inevitable over and over in the last few decades, and yet it still seems impossible for people to imagine the "impossible". I wonder if there is a name for that sort of fallacious thinking.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#108

Another good quote for the OP is Miguel De Cervantes, author if Don Quixote: "there is madness in too much sanity, and the greatest madness of all is to see things as they are instead of as they should be". He would know: Cervantes killed a rival on a duel at 17 and fled to sea. They were attacked by pirates and he fought well before getting his hand blown off and taken prisoner. He lived in captivity but befriended…

loved to learn this quote and story, and love your take on its point!

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#109
post #97
post #94

The article mistakes nihilism for cynicism. It’s kind of obvious that a nihilist doesn’t want to effect change in society. It’s not true at all of cynics. In fact, most people who influence large scale change display some degree of cynicism. Now the article also equals cynicism with “people who complain”, which is also incorrect. Really what the OP means is “if you want to change society you shouldn’t be a nihilistic…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy)

That’s about the philosophical term. If you read the wiki it links to the modern meaning which is what we’re all taking about here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(contemporary)

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#110
I don't think I share the author's definition of cynicism. For me, it's more like the opposite of naïveté. Meanwhile, I also consider myself an optimist about the big picture and the long-term. I just think everyone is self-interested while I subscribe to political realism (i.e. everything is power dynamics) and pragmatism (i.e. evaluation depends on purpose.) It's just that I think that can all be true and things can also turn out fine and people can have meaningful relationships too. I just default to skepticism and distrust. Why? Because I find it to be a much more predictive theory of the world and it produces better results as far as I can tell. Since I can use that and have faith at the same time, I don't really see the downside. You just have to learn to separate the two aspects.
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