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The Matrix Is Unreal

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Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#201

Post by martin_balsam »

unbanned wrote: post #129
dougmwne wrote: post #70

The people trying to point out that this falls short of photorealism are missing the point. This is a tech demo aiming to show off the next generation leap unreal engine 5 is making. There’s lots to be impressed about here and this was made using a ton of procedural generation using a team of just about 70 people. Here’s a great deep dive into some of the new technologies that highlights the strengths and weaknesses…

70 people is rather a lot.

I remember reading that the end credits of Red Dead Redemption 2 was something like 7000 people

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#202

Post by MillenialMan »

winternett wrote: post #102
dougmwne wrote: post #70

The people trying to point out that this falls short of photorealism are missing the point. This is a tech demo aiming to show off the next generation leap unreal engine 5 is making. There’s lots to be impressed about here and this was made using a ton of procedural generation using a team of just about 70 people. Here’s a great deep dive into some of the new technologies that highlights the strengths and weaknesses…

The real excitement will come when it does not require a new $3000 graphics card to run on the home PC I already spent $1500 on... The price of keeping up with every new enhancement on PC is directly linked to each new engine update, but somehow game releases can be "optimized" for gameplay on ~3 year old consoles... Also why I haven't bought any new PC games since GTA5.

GPUs are $3000 because of Bitcoin, not Unreal Engine.

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#203

Post by wongarsu »

ses1984 wrote: post #200
h0l0cube wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a triumph of software, not hardware Purpose built gaming hardware has significant advantages over a typical PC. Modern consoles have SoC designs with incredible bandwidth between CPU/GPU/RAM that you simply can't have on upgradable form factors. The closest thing in the general purpose computing world are the M1 family of SoC MacBooks. UMA on the M1 in particular could be harnessed to have physics and graph…

Do you really need that much bandwidth between cpu and gpu? On a pc the the gpu has its own memory and the memory bandwidth of for example a 3070 is greater than the memory bandwidth of Xbox. Would this demo not run on a pc? I understand that pc hardware is more expensive but it was also my understanding that performance ceiling is actually much higher than consoles, especially after the next gen of pc hardware comes…

CPU and GPU are good at different tasks, but transferring any amount of data across the PCI bus is pretty expensive, forcing you to use both in a suboptimal way. If you have fast enough data transfer between them then you can do SIMD-like tasks much faster on the GPU, while doing a lot of tasks that naturally involve branching faster on the CPU, using whichever processor is faster and has spare capacity instead of whichever has the data.

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#204

Post by mikehollinger »

Tech demo aside, the city model is remarkably detailed. When we went exploring different alleys and flying over buildings we couldn’t find a “forgotten” corner. Does anyone know what the asset for the city is from or will be used for? The thing is massive and seems to be bespoke art.

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#205

Post by TuringTest »

faeyanpiraat wrote: post #183
FractalParadigm wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Walking through a city, you might have 100 NPCs on the screen at once, who all have hair. This is why I'm most excited for high-core counts leading to game development that allows these kinds of things to run in their own hardware threads. Imagine a world where each of those 100 NPCs has hair simulated on one thread, clothing simulated in another, world interaction on another, even AI generation on its own thread.…

The speedup is slowing down though.

But imagine if all these calculations for multiple objects were made on a server, in a shared persistent world that could then be projected onto particular views for each final user connected to the system.

Oh, wait...

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#206

Post by h0l0cube »

wongarsu wrote: post #203
ses1984 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really need that much bandwidth between cpu and gpu? On a pc the the gpu has its own memory and the memory bandwidth of for example a 3070 is greater than the memory bandwidth of Xbox. Would this demo not run on a pc? I understand that pc hardware is more expensive but it was also my understanding that performance ceiling is actually much higher than consoles, especially after the next gen of pc hardware comes…

CPU and GPU are good at different tasks, but transferring any amount of data across the PCI bus is pretty expensive, forcing you to use both in a suboptimal way. If you have fast enough data transfer between them then you can do SIMD-like tasks much faster on the GPU, while doing a lot of tasks that naturally involve branching faster on the CPU, using whichever processor is faster and has spare capacity instead of wh…

This is correct. CPUs are better suited for arbitrary execution (e.g., physics, game logic, networking) whereas the GPU is suited to highly organized data structures and massively parallel computation. Things that require dynamic effects can benefit greatly from reducing dispatch times between GPU/CPU. UMA, as featured on M1 and the PS4, permit almost instantaneous transfer, save for cache coherency issues. The nexus of real time physics solvers and graphics rendering I think is the next step in taking advantage of SoC and UMA

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#207

Post by hnbad »

thefourthchime wrote: post #48
dash2 wrote: post #5

Meh, these guys are still stuck in the uncanny valley. Objects are often absolutely beautiful and realistic, but interactions between objects are ridiculous. Some of this is probably just "not enough processing power", but it is also due to where the rendering bumps up against the primitive controls. For example, you have a very realistic human. But then the human walks against an object, and she does this standard v…

A lot of the older Keanu isn't CG, it's filmed. They switch to the CG versions later. This confused me a lot as well, as I was totally blown away with the first Keanu I saw. "Even now people are confused, having watched the footage several times. “The first time you see the older Keanu that was a video shoot that we (Epic) filmed of him,” Pete explains. “After they come back after Morpheus that was all the CG version…

I think the most impressive feat of the demo is making people think some of the filmed parts were "obvious CG".

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#208

Post by leshow »

rowanG077 wrote: post #159
leshow wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's really cool, the problem is it barely runs at 30fps and there is no way in hell it's going to run at 60fps on a console. I never had a ps4/xbone, skipped the last console cycle and stayed on PC then recently got a PS5 where every title has an option to play at 60fps. There is no way in hell the consoles are going to be able to push this fidelity at that frame rate. Let alone their promise of 120fps that has…

If AI upscale is undistinguishable for the average gamer I really don't see to problem. I much rather have 4k 120fps using AI upscale then full hd 30fps without it.

I don't think this is using a DLSS technique of AI upsampling, but rather a more traditional algorithmic approach like AMD's FXR uses. I'm not saying upsampling isn't good, it's going to be absolutely critical to get this kind of thing running. I was just saying there is some nuance to the 4k/60fps claim of many titles.

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#209

Post by leshow »

shock-value wrote: post #146
leshow wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's really cool, the problem is it barely runs at 30fps and there is no way in hell it's going to run at 60fps on a console. I never had a ps4/xbone, skipped the last console cycle and stayed on PC then recently got a PS5 where every title has an option to play at 60fps. There is no way in hell the consoles are going to be able to push this fidelity at that frame rate. Let alone their promise of 120fps that has…

IMO 4k/60fps as a goal is overrated. 3k upscaled to 4k using a newer generation upscaler is not going to look much worse than native 4k, especially when viewed on a TV at a typical distance from one's couch. And 60fps, while crucial in some genres, is not altogether that important in others (particularly narrative-focused single-player titles, for which Unreal Engine is often used especially among non-major publisher…

I'm not trying to crap on upsampling, it's going to be critical to get decent fidelity in modern games.

I think you're wrong about frame rate though. I find 30fps unplayable. Also, people have had a taste for it. They have been playing 60fps titles since launch on the next gen consoles, it makes the frame rate all the more strange when you play something running at half that.

Not sure what you are talking about with games using unreal engine. It's also used for shooters, Gears of war is one of the flagship unreal titles. I'm sure the folks at unreal don't want people to think "the engine isn't for shooters".

Re: The Matrix Is Unreal

#210

Post by JohnWhigham »

ErneX wrote: post #173

I'm surprised at the amount of comments with a jaded tone. This is one the most impressive tech demos I've seen running on real time, and I watched Second Reality by Future Crew back in the early 90s when it came out. The car chase sequence is mind blowing and then you get to free roam the city by foot, car or even drone. Nanite and lumen are something special.

Tech demos are just that: demos. Very few, if any, studios will release a game on that engine with such fidelity. And given the current practice of AAA studios now starting to charge $70 for base games and still releasing them as a broken mess, I doubt we'll see any game be as remotely exciting as the demo.
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