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Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

latimes.com

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Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#121

Post by mcot2 »

rp1 wrote: post #118
jakear wrote: post #111

This is why I drive a big truck. When egomaniacs can trick the government into allowing them to set their half baked creations loose on public roads using unknowing and unwilling third parties as test subjects, I want to be the dominant term in any and all conservation of momentum equations that may ensue. As an aside, I’ve driven maybe 50,000 miles in my lifetime. Of those, 47,000+ are using pre-2005 vehicles with z…

What does a big truck have to do with safety features? To me, it just sounds like you’re happy to pollute the environment just so you’re sure to annihilate your counter party in an accident.

Many studies have shown (and basic physics suggests) that the survivabity of accidents goes way up with vehicle weight all other things being mostly equal.

https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#122

Post by TigeriusKirk »

ec109685 wrote: post #113
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but the issues the Tesla seems to have in the video above (pedestrians crossing, rail tracks, bus lanes, parked UPS trucks) are hardly 1% edge cases, but common occurrences that are in every city. And it wasn't even rush hour through some crowded European city like Rome with people on scooters zooming in every directions, in poor weather conditions at night, it was broad daylight in a city with barely any traff…

Agree with you, but that area in downtown San Jose is very weird to drive around given their light rail system. Not defending Tesla for all of those mistakes, but as a human, it’s easy to end up going down the wrong lane.

I've personally seen cars in those San Jose train lanes enough times to wonder just how common it is.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#123

Post by jimkleiber »

wongarsu wrote: post #86
jimkleiber wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel confused why 1) they would call both programs by the same name (arguing that an acronym is pretty much the same name) and 2) why the government even allows them to call it Full Self Driving, when there are levels of autonomous driving and I imagine most would assume Full means the highest level, which, Tesla has not yet achieved from everything I've read.

> I imagine most would assume Full means the highest level USB 2.0 got away with Full Speed/High Speed (with high being more than full)

Maybe with a USB "full speed" I assume it's the fastest that the current USB could go. For some reason, with self driving, the modifier "full" makes me think level 5 autonomy, which I'm almost certain it does not have.

Actually, NHTSA defines[0] level 5 as: "An automated driving system (ADS) on the vehicle can do all the driving in all circumstances. The human occupants are just passengers and need never be involved in driving."

[0]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/technology-innovation/automated-vehicl...

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#124

Post by mcot2 »

ModernMech wrote: post #76
gadnuk wrote: post #2

As they should, from all agencies involved. It is absolutely horrifying to see Tesla do this open beta test on public roads when no other non-Tesla entities (other cars, pedestrians, motorcyclists, bicyclists, etc) consented to being a part of a reckless experiment. Moreover, Tesla influencers on social media tend to cherry pick and show only the nicer parts of their FSD Beta drives where no incidents and disengageme…

> https://mobile.twitter.com/taylorogan/status/146940457943982... > He wants to make people believe in the illusion that Tesla are in some unsurmountable lead when it comes to autonomy but they are actually playing catchup and are dead last because of the approach they took. I'm sorry, but yeah, the results in that video are worse than what we had 14 years ago after the DARPA Urban Challenge. I'm actually astounded h…

Correct me if I am wrong but the approach used by most in the DARPA challenge was lidar using pre-mapped routes and heavy use of localization. If the route changed significantly I think those cars would have trouble.

I belive Teslas approach might currently feel behind but has much more “headroom”. As Elon states the team have gone down many paths that lead to a local maximum which is short of the actual end goal. They firmly belive that an end-to-end system has to be based on vision and has to be able to drive in any situation the very first time without localizing itself to a preset path.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#125

Post by ximeng »

ModernMech wrote: post #76
gadnuk wrote: post #2

As they should, from all agencies involved. It is absolutely horrifying to see Tesla do this open beta test on public roads when no other non-Tesla entities (other cars, pedestrians, motorcyclists, bicyclists, etc) consented to being a part of a reckless experiment. Moreover, Tesla influencers on social media tend to cherry pick and show only the nicer parts of their FSD Beta drives where no incidents and disengageme…

> https://mobile.twitter.com/taylorogan/status/146940457943982... > He wants to make people believe in the illusion that Tesla are in some unsurmountable lead when it comes to autonomy but they are actually playing catchup and are dead last because of the approach they took. I'm sorry, but yeah, the results in that video are worse than what we had 14 years ago after the DARPA Urban Challenge. I'm actually astounded h…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJAANgG-Vg You mean this? It looks much less capable and a much more constrained environment than Tesla deals with.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#126

Post by sterlind »

jakear wrote: post #111

This is why I drive a big truck. When egomaniacs can trick the government into allowing them to set their half baked creations loose on public roads using unknowing and unwilling third parties as test subjects, I want to be the dominant term in any and all conservation of momentum equations that may ensue. As an aside, I’ve driven maybe 50,000 miles in my lifetime. Of those, 47,000+ are using pre-2005 vehicles with z…

Interesting game equilibrium. You buy a big truck because you're threatened by lightweight Teslas. I buy a semitruck to protect myself from you. A few cycles later, everyone's screaming around like Snowpiercer in APCs and military bulldozers.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#127

Post by smnrchrds »

wongarsu wrote: post #86
jimkleiber wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel confused why 1) they would call both programs by the same name (arguing that an acronym is pretty much the same name) and 2) why the government even allows them to call it Full Self Driving, when there are levels of autonomous driving and I imagine most would assume Full means the highest level, which, Tesla has not yet achieved from everything I've read.

> I imagine most would assume Full means the highest level USB 2.0 got away with Full Speed/High Speed (with high being more than full)

"I Can't Believe It's Not Self-Driving"

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#128

Post by ModernMech »

loeg wrote: post #117
ModernMech wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are safer than some human drivers in some conditions. They are not safer than every human driver in every condition though, so you'd need more to make a valid utilitarian argument.

The utilitarian argument doesn't require that they be better than every human driver in every condition -- just that they be better enough against the average situation that outcomes are net better.

I don't think that's right, because human drivers are exceedingly good at handling the average situation. If they weren't, you'd have accidents literally all the time. The average situation is accident-free. How much can you improve on that?

The utilitarian argument for driverless cars needs to be that driverless cars are better at handling the edge cases than humans, because that's when accidents happen.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#129

Post by lanevorockz »

alistairSH wrote: post #32
lanevorockz wrote: post #8

No wonder Tesla is leaving California, over and over again you see corruption and government control taking over inovation.

Asking why the DMV is allowing beta-quality autonomous driving systems on public roads is “corruption”? Lol.

Who determines Beta-Quality ? What you complain here is something all developed countries already allow, anyways .. let the lobbyist bribe whoever they want.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#130

Post by mcot2 »

ModernMech wrote: post #116
mcot2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that time the system was merely lane keep with adaptive cruise control. Any system would have had a similar result at that time.

Not any system. My recollection of that specific event was that is was due to the bright white tractor trailer not being picked up by the Tesla's camera. A system built with an orthogonal sensor could have picked up the trailer despite the camera missing it (e.g. a LIDAR). Proper fusion of those streams would have avoided the issue, and that person would be alive, or at least not dead because of Tesla's poorly engine…

To clarify, any adaptive cruise system in deployment at that time.
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