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Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

latimes.com

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Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#51

Post by mcot2 »

mygoodaccount wrote: post #33
mcot2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is actively participating in the beta you couldn’t be more off base in your assertions. It sucks to see progress stifled by people that have no idea what they are talking about. With the thousands of people actively using the FSD Beta safely, show me significant evidence of an increased level of accidents that have occured. You can’t because the evidence does not exist.

Tesla doesn't publish data nor shares it with the NHTSA, so that's very difficult to do. The only """data""" we have are videos uploaded to YouTube by a select group of Tesla owners who have access to the beta. Even ignoring the bias in videos selected for upload by the beta testers, every single city driving clip I've seen has several illegal maneuvers and many more disengagements.

There are thousands of people using the beta safely. Try actually delving into the numerous communities online discussing the beta rather than being swayed by influencers.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#52

Post by ModernMech »

andrelayer wrote: post #6
gadnuk wrote: post #2

As they should, from all agencies involved. It is absolutely horrifying to see Tesla do this open beta test on public roads when no other non-Tesla entities (other cars, pedestrians, motorcyclists, bicyclists, etc) consented to being a part of a reckless experiment. Moreover, Tesla influencers on social media tend to cherry pick and show only the nicer parts of their FSD Beta drives where no incidents and disengageme…

There is the argument that they are already safer than human drivers though and it'd be morally objectionable to stop. Not saying I'm completely on that side, but it is a valid utilitarian argument.

They are safer than some human drivers in some conditions. They are not safer than every human driver in every condition though, so you'd need more to make a valid utilitarian argument.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#53

Post by kadoban »

mcot2 wrote: post #38
kadoban wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the evidence does not exist" because it's not true or because Tesla is hiding it? We should know which, and these legislators asking questions seems to be a good start towards getting answers.

Because its not true at all. Most major Tesla incidents of any kind make headlines from fires to accidents on AP. You should do some basic research on the topic. https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/10/21/22738834/te... The FUD is _insane_ with Tesla.

If it's not true, Tesla should be overjoyed to share raw data (not processed through their marketing department) then.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#54

Post by jimkleiber »

thinkmassive wrote: post #23

Note that there are two “FSD Beta” programs: 1. The paid software unlock for “Full Self Driving” (currently in “beta”) available to everyone, which provides automatic driving from on-ramp to off-ramp, and a handful of parking features like auto-park and summon: https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot#usingautopilot 2. The invite-only “FSD Beta” that unlocks the above FSD features on city streets, which is available t…

I feel confused why 1) they would call both programs by the same name (arguing that an acronym is pretty much the same name) and 2) why the government even allows them to call it Full Self Driving, when there are levels of autonomous driving and I imagine most would assume Full means the highest level, which, Tesla has not yet achieved from everything I've read.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#56

Post by kadoban »

randyrand wrote: post #42
kadoban wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the evidence does not exist" because it's not true or because Tesla is hiding it? We should know which, and these legislators asking questions seems to be a good start towards getting answers.

How could Tesla hide something that happens on public roads? If a tesla is at-fault, there’s another non-tesla party in the accident and police and dmv usually involved.

They can hide it by discouraging anyone from having enough answers to draw conclusions. What's one cop going to do? It'll get written up sloppily in one report, _maybe_ if they think it's important, and that'll be it. There usually won't be enough details of any sort.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#58

Post by intrasight »

mygoodaccount wrote: post #20

Slightly off topic, but it's fun to see company culture reflected in the algorithm behaviour. There are thousands of clips of Tesla's Fatal Self Driving being far too aggressive for American roads ( https://nitter.net/taylorogan/status/1469404579439824899 ). Meanwhile, companies like AutoX have the problem of being far too conservative for Asian roads ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=TFEvkmvIjVo ). AutoX…

This I've long thought the be the Achilles' heel of autonomous. Even skilled human drivers have a hard time calibrating their style to the local situation.

I remember the first time I drove as a passenger through Manhattan with my father driving, and couldn't get my head around his change in driving style. Was a side of him I'd never seen before - driving aggressively like a cab driver. I'm sure it came from his years of living in NYC.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#59

Post by Pyramus »

mcot2 wrote: post #38
kadoban wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the evidence does not exist" because it's not true or because Tesla is hiding it? We should know which, and these legislators asking questions seems to be a good start towards getting answers.

Because its not true at all. Most major Tesla incidents of any kind make headlines from fires to accidents on AP. You should do some basic research on the topic. https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/10/21/22738834/te... The FUD is _insane_ with Tesla.

So why doesn't Tesla share raw data with the public, or regulators? I cannot think of better PR for Tesla, and autonomous driving in general.

Re: Alarmed by Tesla’s self-driving test, state legislators demand answers from DMV

#60

Post by mcot2 »

kadoban wrote: post #53
mcot2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because its not true at all. Most major Tesla incidents of any kind make headlines from fires to accidents on AP. You should do some basic research on the topic. https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/10/21/22738834/te... The FUD is _insane_ with Tesla.

If it's not true, Tesla should be overjoyed to share raw data (not processed through their marketing department) then.

I don’t think they even really have a traditional marketing department. The beta release notes are probably something you should check out.

Latest:

Improved object detection network architecture for non-VRUs (e.g. cars, trucks, buses). 7% higher recall. 16% lower depth error, and 21% lower velocity error for crossing vehicles.

New visibility network with 18.5% less mean relative error.

New general static object network with 17% precision improvements in high curvature and nighttime cases.

Improved stopping position at unprotected left turns while yielding to oncoming objects, using object predictions beyond the crossing point.

Allow more room for longitudinal alignment during merges by incorporating modeling of merge region end.

Improved comfort when offsetting for objects that are cutting out of your lane.

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