Live data from Hacker News

Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

youtube.com

111–120 of 277 posts

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#111
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting if the dinosaurs had tried harder to "evolve in time", they could have better survived an asteroid hit? I don't think that's how evolution works. For humans either.

One thing I sometimes wonder is: if there was a dinosaur species which had reached roughly our level of intelligence and society, would they have left enough of a mark on the world that we could even tell? If they got further than us, tried to capture an asteroid and mine it, could they have wiped themselves out without leaving behind technosignatures that would still be visible?

Humans left a ridiculous amount of stone tools which last basically indefinitely in the fossil record (and unlike bone fossils, don't require super special conditions to preserve them). So I think we'd have enough evidence from modern artifacts made of similar types of materials. A car buried under sediment would rust all out, but you'd be left with a big car-shaped bunch of rust as well as chunks of pure metal which better resist corrosion, like stainless bits or the platinum catalytic converter, various bits of glass and ceramic in very artificial looking shapes, etc.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#112
post #11

Jonathan Blow's talk 'Preventing the Collapse of Civilization' goes into detail about how technology can regress, with the Mechanism being one example. This kind of thing is far more common than we think, most would be surprised to learn that Ancient Greece had writing for about 600 years before forgetting it. There was no writing in Greece for over 400 years, until they adopted the Phoenician alphabet around 730 BC.…

We had a solution to scurvy in the late 1400s.

And yet it was “lost” (for a variety of reasons) and was still killing people as late as 1911.

https://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#113
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is generally considered a dangerous line of thinking, but I believe society has become too soft. We're so frightened of mystical thinking and being wrong that people aren't willing to entertain "dumb" ideas. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it's anything more than speculation.

Unconventional might be the word you want, more than "dumb". In a way, despite our general tolerance and diversity of thought, I've come to believe we're an extremely orthodox culture. As a general rule, there is a right way to do something, someone has almost certainly already discovered it, and your job as an artisan, engineer, or anyone else, is to look that correct way up in a book, and do it that way. Just inven…

Yep. It's ironically very unscientific.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is generally considered a dangerous line of thinking, but I believe society has become too soft. We're so frightened of mystical thinking and being wrong that people aren't willing to entertain "dumb" ideas. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it's anything more than speculation.

> We're so frightened of mystical thinking and being wrong that people aren't willing to entertain "dumb" ideas. As the pandemic has showed, quite the contrary we embrace too many "dumb" ideas.

This is what I'm talking about, folks!

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#115
post #75
post #11

Jonathan Blow's talk 'Preventing the Collapse of Civilization' goes into detail about how technology can regress, with the Mechanism being one example. This kind of thing is far more common than we think, most would be surprised to learn that Ancient Greece had writing for about 600 years before forgetting it. There was no writing in Greece for over 400 years, until they adopted the Phoenician alphabet around 730 BC.…

Do we have any contemporaneous record of this mechanism, or have references to the device not survived for some reason? If such a device was considered advanced or cutting edge or of note back then then wouldn't we expect some reference to the device?

Darwin College Lecture Series: Decoding the Heavens: The Antikythera Mechanism by Jo Marchant

"There are quite a few mentions of devices that sound a bit like the Antikythera mechanism"

https://youtu.be/Iv-zWbxm2lY?t=2695

Jo Marchant is an award-winning science journalist and author of several popular science books including Decoding the Heavens: Solving the mystery of the world’s first computer and the New York Times bestseller Cure: A journey into the science of mind over body (both shortlisted for the Royal Society science books prize). She has a PhD in genetics, and has worked as a senior editor at New Scientist and at Nature.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#116
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example closer to home, though perhaps not as stark, is the loss of expertise in various industries that have been outsourced. The US is a good example. This is one (of many) arguments against outsourcing your industry just because it's cheaper and increases the profits of the outsourcing company. The tradition and culture that allows a certain industry to flourish is interrupted and destroyed and rebuilding that…

Yup, this is a massive strategic blunder of historical scale. While the US and western countries are asleep at the switch and think that they are exploiting cheap Chinese labor, the Chinese have a 100- and 500- year plan and are exploiting our myopia for short-term profits to gain manufacturing expertise and military advantage. It may not be too late to reverse, but it is close. It is really the result of not thinkin…

[deleted]

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#117
post #11

Jonathan Blow's talk 'Preventing the Collapse of Civilization' goes into detail about how technology can regress, with the Mechanism being one example. This kind of thing is far more common than we think, most would be surprised to learn that Ancient Greece had writing for about 600 years before forgetting it. There was no writing in Greece for over 400 years, until they adopted the Phoenician alphabet around 730 BC.…

Not sure if it is a myth, but hadn't we forgotten to build Saturn V engines?

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that vastly underestimates the dependency tree in modern society. Storing hydrogen in useful quantities is tough, requiring fairly sophisticated metallurgy and cryogenics. Finding out we've got a hard to replace left-pad module somewhere far up the tech tree wouldn't be fun.

The dependency tree of 19th Century or early 20th century society is a lot more straightforward, however. And no, you don't need such sophistication for storing useful amounts of hydrogen. Storing large amounts of hydrogen (in this case, also mixed with poisonous CO) was solved in the beginning of the 19th Century (well, late 18th century) in Britain and Germany by using very large near-atmospheric storage vessels ca…

Except the Iron Age started around 2000 BC, so the world would largely be without iron for a very long time.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#119
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting if the dinosaurs had tried harder to "evolve in time", they could have better survived an asteroid hit? I don't think that's how evolution works. For humans either.

One thing I sometimes wonder is: if there was a dinosaur species which had reached roughly our level of intelligence and society, would they have left enough of a mark on the world that we could even tell? If they got further than us, tried to capture an asteroid and mine it, could they have wiped themselves out without leaving behind technosignatures that would still be visible?

While our time has been short on geological scales, that's a point in favor of being discovered later. So much has been deposited by us in the geological record in a stunningly short (by future geologists' viewpoint) timescale like plastics, temperature variations, and irradiated patches of land.

To make things worse for a hypothetical advanced dinosaur species, if they were at the point they could capture an asteroid, they would be roughly equivalent or better with us but we could survive an asteroid extinction event just fine. Society as we know it perhaps wouldn't survive but an event that could genuinely end us as a species would need to be exceedingly destructive or long term. Otherwise the remnants will rebuild, give or take a couple 10s of thousands of years, which is basically nothing on the timescales we're thinking about here.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#120
post #11

Jonathan Blow's talk 'Preventing the Collapse of Civilization' goes into detail about how technology can regress, with the Mechanism being one example. This kind of thing is far more common than we think, most would be surprised to learn that Ancient Greece had writing for about 600 years before forgetting it. There was no writing in Greece for over 400 years, until they adopted the Phoenician alphabet around 730 BC.…

Not sure if it is a myth, but hadn't we forgotten to build Saturn V engines?

IIRC we have (at least most of) the drawings, but they don't specify tolerances like modern drawings do and were more for reference as parts were developed at specific factories with existing molds. It's more the fabrication knowledge that would need to be rebuilt.
Post reply on HN