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Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#31

Post by db48x »

throwawayay02 wrote: post #19

It is absolutely not a computer, though. They observed the observable astrological phenomena was cyclical and made a system of gears for their periods to predict it's state. It's interesting, but for context it is centuries younger than the first Greek geared clocks, so it's definitely not something we should be too surprised that existed.

It is absolutely a special–purpose computer. Of course it’s not a general–purpose programmable computer such as the ones we use today, but it is still a computer.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#32

Post by nerdponx »

nathias wrote: post #15

Technology can stay 'inert' even if it is invented, for example the Romans already knew steam machines but didn't find a use for them, probably because they had slaves to do all that cheaper. Until recently solar power tech was the same ...

Romans knew about steam power? Never heard that one before, have a good place to read about it?

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#33

Post by beowulfey »

Joker_vD wrote: post #18
luma wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often wondered if the people making these claims ("you need lasers to make something that flat") are people working in archeology or are actual civil engineers or machinists etc. Talk to a master machinist about how to make a large stone flat with access to ancient technology and I suspect you'll get a handful of plausible answers.

I've seen exactly blue-collars workers arguing for impossibility: it's hard enough to do with modern technology ("I know it first-hand!"), how would you even do it without it?

That’s perhaps a testament to our dependence on modern machinery, if the skills did exist once.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#34

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

db48x wrote: post #31
throwawayay02 wrote: post #19

It is absolutely not a computer, though. They observed the observable astrological phenomena was cyclical and made a system of gears for their periods to predict it's state. It's interesting, but for context it is centuries younger than the first Greek geared clocks, so it's definitely not something we should be too surprised that existed.

It is absolutely a special–purpose computer. Of course it’s not a general–purpose programmable computer such as the ones we use today, but it is still a computer.

Right, it is an algorithm, coded in analogue hardware. It can _compute_ certain astronomical outputs for a range of inputs.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#35

Post by sharemywin »

api wrote: post #27
rozab wrote: post #11

Jonathan Blow's talk 'Preventing the Collapse of Civilization' goes into detail about how technology can regress, with the Mechanism being one example. This kind of thing is far more common than we think, most would be surprised to learn that Ancient Greece had writing for about 600 years before forgetting it. There was no writing in Greece for over 400 years, until they adopted the Phoenician alphabet around 730 BC.…

I've been programming since... well... technically since I was a kid in the 1980s and professionally since 1998. I think several areas have regressed quite a bit. The biggest one by far is desktop GUI programming. From the late 1980s until the mid-2000s GUIs had all kinds of standardized visual cues, context sensitive help, UIs usable by both mouse and keyboard, standard interface designs across apps, data binding, a…

I miss VB. it was really easy to use. There are tools out there but you have to pay every month for them.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#36

Post by darkerside »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #12

Just think abput all the knowledge that was lost over the centuries and millenia of human civilization. Who are we to think that our technology is the greatest and the most advanced on this planet? We have no conclusive evidence to claim such titles. Ancient people have drawings of strange creatures and devices that descend from the heavens. Even the Pyramids show signs of advanced engineering, such as deep tunnels a…

This is generally considered a dangerous line of thinking, but I believe society has become too soft. We're so frightened of mystical thinking and being wrong that people aren't willing to entertain "dumb" ideas.

Just don't make the mistake of thinking it's anything more than speculation.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#37

Post by TheGigaChad »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #12

Just think abput all the knowledge that was lost over the centuries and millenia of human civilization. Who are we to think that our technology is the greatest and the most advanced on this planet? We have no conclusive evidence to claim such titles. Ancient people have drawings of strange creatures and devices that descend from the heavens. Even the Pyramids show signs of advanced engineering, such as deep tunnels a…

Who is claiming this you fucking idiot?

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#38

Post by WJW »

luma wrote: post #17
Joker_vD wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen people claimed that, e.g. the polished granite columns common across European palaces and even some cathedrals, could not have been a) polished so well without laser technology, b) could not be moved and then erected without modern engine-powered equipment. So all of it was the work of ancient aliens or something, and the history as we're taught it is completely falsified, for some reason. Because obviously…

I've often wondered if the people making these claims ("you need lasers to make something that flat") are people working in archeology or are actual civil engineers or machinists etc. Talk to a master machinist about how to make a large stone flat with access to ancient technology and I suspect you'll get a handful of plausible answers.

"Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" is the text I see referenced most often in this context. On the pdf at [1], from page 24 onwards it describes the procedure to create a flat surface accurate to single digit micrometers "from scratch" with nothing but a scraping tool and some dye (and a whole lot of patience).

[1] https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/15_Mfrs_Publications/M...

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#39

Post by WJW »

nerdponx wrote: post #32
nathias wrote: post #15

Technology can stay 'inert' even if it is invented, for example the Romans already knew steam machines but didn't find a use for them, probably because they had slaves to do all that cheaper. Until recently solar power tech was the same ...

Romans knew about steam power? Never heard that one before, have a good place to read about it?

The first steam "engine" was the Aeolipile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile), but it was more a toy than a useful tool. IIRC there was also a temple somewhere that used steam to open its doors as a cool trick to impress the masses.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#40

Post by aeonflux »

luma wrote: post #17
Joker_vD wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen people claimed that, e.g. the polished granite columns common across European palaces and even some cathedrals, could not have been a) polished so well without laser technology, b) could not be moved and then erected without modern engine-powered equipment. So all of it was the work of ancient aliens or something, and the history as we're taught it is completely falsified, for some reason. Because obviously…

I've often wondered if the people making these claims ("you need lasers to make something that flat") are people working in archeology or are actual civil engineers or machinists etc. Talk to a master machinist about how to make a large stone flat with access to ancient technology and I suspect you'll get a handful of plausible answers.

This argument can work both ways. Some people claim everything in Egypt could be done with hands, patience (or by forcing someone). But there are many other clues, suggesting that civilization had access to some very sophisticated tools or machinery. Maybe not lasers, but not hand saws either. Check this short clip for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Oe1--ss51Q&t=917s It describes a sarcophagus was ditched mid-production, because the cut was made in the wrong way. I am not saying that the conclusion is valid, but it's an interesting data point.
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