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Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

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Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#11

Post by rozab »

Jonathan Blow's talk 'Preventing the Collapse of Civilization' goes into detail about how technology can regress, with the Mechanism being one example. This kind of thing is far more common than we think, most would be surprised to learn that Ancient Greece had writing for about 600 years before forgetting it. There was no writing in Greece for over 400 years, until they adopted the Phoenician alphabet around 730 BC.

He compares this situation to the state of software development today. It's a sobering watch.

https://youtu.be/pW-SOdj4Kkk

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#12

Post by wheelerof4te »

Just think abput all the knowledge that was lost over the centuries and millenia of human civilization.

Who are we to think that our technology is the greatest and the most advanced on this planet? We have no conclusive evidence to claim such titles.

Ancient people have drawings of strange creatures and devices that descend from the heavens. Even the Pyramids show signs of advanced engineering, such as deep tunnels and chambers beneath layers of limestone and rocks. These structures were neccessary for survival under the scorching sun during the summer. During winter's cold nights, rocks provided good thermal isolation. We now know of huge chambers and hallways carved deep into the Pyramids. Maybe they were used as gathering places, with many chambers providing shelter and comfort?

Who knows. Only couple of years earlier we thought to know everything about ancient Greece. Then this happened.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#13

Post by agumonkey »

Joker_vD wrote: post #7
luma wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All they're saying is that the technology represented in this device has no equivalent in the historical record anywhere near that time and that place. It's not to say that it literally cannot exist, rather, our historical understanding of these peoples is clearly incomplete. These are the sorts of findings that change our understanding of history which makes it pretty exciting to me. The Clickspring series on this m…

I've seen people claimed that, e.g. the polished granite columns common across European palaces and even some cathedrals, could not have been a) polished so well without laser technology, b) could not be moved and then erected without modern engine-powered equipment. So all of it was the work of ancient aliens or something, and the history as we're taught it is completely falsified, for some reason. Because obviously…

That's why I like videos of handtools techniques. People splitting massive rocks. Levers and pivots to manipulate them. Mechanics are not recent.. we just do it faster thanks to modern energy storage and transfer.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#14

Post by yarky »

smitty1e wrote: post #3

"Simply shouldn't exist" Pyramids were wonders of the ancient world long before the Python web framework. The condescencion of the modern age toward those who came before use never ceases to amuse.

They shouldn't exist if the null hypothesis hold true, so this is evidence against the null hypothesis, aka the official history.

This shouldn't surprise you neither, but that depends on your null hypothesis ;)

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#15

Post by nathias »

Technology can stay 'inert' even if it is invented, for example the Romans already knew steam machines but didn't find a use for them, probably because they had slaves to do all that cheaper. Until recently solar power tech was the same ...

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#16

Post by luma »

rozab wrote: post #5
luma wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All they're saying is that the technology represented in this device has no equivalent in the historical record anywhere near that time and that place. It's not to say that it literally cannot exist, rather, our historical understanding of these peoples is clearly incomplete. These are the sorts of findings that change our understanding of history which makes it pretty exciting to me. The Clickspring series on this m…

There are actually several descriptions of similar devices in the literature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism#Similar_...

Oh for sure and I think that's an important point: this device didn't pop out of nowhere.

Something of this complexity strongly suggests an existing school/guild/etc which developed the knowledge and crafts around designing and building "clockwork" devices like this. China had discovered the geared wheel centuries previous so gears were known. It's the integration of the basic underlying technologies that is surprising, and I don't think it's a huge leap to presume that there must be more of these devices out there waiting to be discovered!

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#17

Post by luma »

Joker_vD wrote: post #7
luma wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All they're saying is that the technology represented in this device has no equivalent in the historical record anywhere near that time and that place. It's not to say that it literally cannot exist, rather, our historical understanding of these peoples is clearly incomplete. These are the sorts of findings that change our understanding of history which makes it pretty exciting to me. The Clickspring series on this m…

I've seen people claimed that, e.g. the polished granite columns common across European palaces and even some cathedrals, could not have been a) polished so well without laser technology, b) could not be moved and then erected without modern engine-powered equipment. So all of it was the work of ancient aliens or something, and the history as we're taught it is completely falsified, for some reason. Because obviously…

I've often wondered if the people making these claims ("you need lasers to make something that flat") are people working in archeology or are actual civil engineers or machinists etc. Talk to a master machinist about how to make a large stone flat with access to ancient technology and I suspect you'll get a handful of plausible answers.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#18

Post by Joker_vD »

luma wrote: post #17
Joker_vD wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen people claimed that, e.g. the polished granite columns common across European palaces and even some cathedrals, could not have been a) polished so well without laser technology, b) could not be moved and then erected without modern engine-powered equipment. So all of it was the work of ancient aliens or something, and the history as we're taught it is completely falsified, for some reason. Because obviously…

I've often wondered if the people making these claims ("you need lasers to make something that flat") are people working in archeology or are actual civil engineers or machinists etc. Talk to a master machinist about how to make a large stone flat with access to ancient technology and I suspect you'll get a handful of plausible answers.

I've seen exactly blue-collars workers arguing for impossibility: it's hard enough to do with modern technology ("I know it first-hand!"), how would you even do it without it?

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#19

Post by throwawayay02 »

It is absolutely not a computer, though. They observed the observable astrological phenomena was cyclical and made a system of gears for their periods to predict it's state. It's interesting, but for context it is centuries younger than the first Greek geared clocks, so it's definitely not something we should be too surprised that existed.

Re: Antikythera Mechanism: An ancient 'computer' that 'shouldn't exist' [video]

#20

Post by ramraj07 »

throwawayay02 wrote: post #19

It is absolutely not a computer, though. They observed the observable astrological phenomena was cyclical and made a system of gears for their periods to predict it's state. It's interesting, but for context it is centuries younger than the first Greek geared clocks, so it's definitely not something we should be too surprised that existed.

Citation needed? First time I'm hearing anyone say that this mechanism is not an anachronism based on current historical timelines.
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