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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#361

Post by ceejayoz »

mercy_dude wrote: post #343
ceejayoz wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. That, uh, might be a bit of an overcorrection.

Well can you elaborate why you think it is? Because the way I see it, it gives unwavering and constitutionally guaranteed way for billionaires to control the narratives - in addition to the power they already have been wielding through owning politicians using lobbyists and having protection through section 230 in all the stakes they own in the social media companies. That’s what has been happening in the media space…

> Well can you elaborate why you think it is?

Because "we'll revoke your First Amendment rights if we don't like how you're using them" is a very big step on a very steep and very slippery slope.

Assange's defense is likely to revolve around the First Amendment. Weakening it would hurt him, even.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#362

Post by andrewla »

This is not the end of the world -- he has not been convicted of any crimes in the United States; there is just sufficient prima facie evidence to warrant extradition.

I'm hopeful that in a trial he'll be able to mount an effective defense and that in the end we'll get a wonderful victory for free speech. I'm looking forward to being able to donate to his legal defense fund; I see that there are some gofundme things out there, but I worry they might be scams so I'm waiting until I see something more official to contribute.

Given his poor physical and mental health, however, that may not be in the cards; he may end up not making it to trial or compelled to accept a plea bargain for a lesser charge in order to put the matter to rest.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#363

Post by Supermancho »

bladegash wrote: post #268
Karunamon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if accomplishing the first thing necessarily accomplishes the second thing? For example, informing on any nation's heretofore unknown war crimes hurts them on the world stage.

That's a good question and I am not 100% sure where I would personally/morally draw the line. I think the conversation would be much different if all that were released was the evidence of what people consider to be a war crime. However, there was a lot more than that released than just that. Whether A (benefit to society) is greater than B (risk/damage) is always a hard distinction to make and up for significant dis…

> That's a good question and I am not 100% sure where I would personally/morally draw the line.

What benefits or harms a country is orthogonal to what is factual. Any law that claims a moral high ground in protecting facts from being publicized, is used as a club to suppress speech. That is the moral issue, not some misguided idea that you are beholden to where and when you were born over reality to make statements. When you chase people after the fact (information is already published), you're doubling the moral insult. This isn't he ruin of the US, so it's transparently a petty vendetta.

There are practical problems (like state secrets in larger war games, ie Game Theory), which countries have historically forgone any nuance for the club, in the interest of expediency and simplicity. This isn't so complicated. Everyone understands. This is not a justification for totalitarian behavior, regardless of how dressed up the process is.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#364

Post by ceejayoz »

fredstarr wrote: post #358
ceejayoz wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. That, uh, might be a bit of an overcorrection.

Overcorrection? No it is not. They enjoy misleading and diverting attention away from the things that really matter. Just take a look at these lawsuits: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/a-court-ruled-rachel-maddow... https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case... Look, these talking heads are simply well-paid entertainers - nothing more. All they spew is lies, propaganda and downplay the things that…

> Look, these talking heads are simply well-paid entertainers - nothing more.

Entertainers have First Amendment rights, too.

> They enjoy misleading and diverting attention away from the things that really matter.

If I feel your argument does that, do I get to revoke your rights?

> So I'd recommend that they be stripped of all of those protections and get the same punitive treatment that we, the People (we are the ones who pay taxes, BTW), get when we talk shit.

We, the People, are similarly protected by the First Amendment. Weakening it would impact us, too.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#365

Post by jrsj »

unknownus3r wrote: post #326

I’m from the US and from my perspective he’s certainly an enemy of my country and working to undermine it. A country cannot function if nameless underlings do not carry out the agenda set forth by the elected and appointed people in charge. There are many problems with entrenched bureaucracy but having secrets leaked weakens American power and our government’s ability to handle the problems we face. If you see mudge’…

American “democracy” is a facade and none of these people work for you. They think of you as livestock. There isn’t any hope of this changing without challenging our corrupt government.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#367

Post by mmcwilliams »

zepto wrote: post #348
brandelune wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect Assange does not want to be tortured and murdered and thus does not want this. Are you insane ?

I doubt the US intends to murder him.

It might be the case right now but it came out earlier this year that the CIA was entertaining this idea in 2017. This [0] appears to be the originating story and there are corroborating accounts in many other outlets.

[0] https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#368

Post by unknownus3r »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47
kome wrote: post #13

Young people IMHO have no idea what's going on. In one line: Assange in 2010 revealed and gave clear proof of American war crimes in Iraq https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Collateral_Murder,_5_Apr_2010 - now the US wants him dead. That's how imperialism works. Today is a sad day for all freedom and peace lovers. Edit: just to be clear, the perpetrators of those barbarous war crimes, and their superiors, never had to face ju…

> revealed and gave clear proof of American war crimes in Iraq Honest question: are these crimes under U.S. law?

If a terrorist is hiding amongst civilians and is engaged, is the collateral damage a war crime? If an operator attacks someone she believes to be a terrorist in a war zone but ends up being civilian is it a war crime?

There are not easy questions to answer when you consider the difficulties of operating in war. Many times, people in those situations are moving on incomplete or even incorrect information and lives of their fellow soldiers hang in the balance. It’s easy to look back at hindsight and judge it harshly but in the moment, put yourselves in their shoes, what would you have done?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#369

Post by newbamboo »

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

It’s not much different at other levels. You only have public opinion and Assange wasn’t able to best Clinton in that realm. There’s a lesson about optics and choosing your enemies to be learned as well as the lesson about power.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#370

Post by zepto »

roenxi wrote: post #198
DonHopkins wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you denying that he washed and selectively released Russian propaganda, and also worked with the Trump campaign? So do you believe Seth Rich was murdered then? Edit: roenxi: Spreading the propaganda that Seth Rich was murdered is not "aggressively telling the truth", it's aggressively and mendaciously lying. It's a bit awkward for you to suggest that it's true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich#Wi…

It is impressive that the Russians manage to maintain such a stranglehold on the US consciousness given the number of special interest groups they have to keep in front of. It would appear that this "Russian propaganda" involves aggressively telling the truth. It is a bit awkward to suggest that is an effective tactic against the US.

The Soviet’s had a newspaper called ‘Truth’. This is a kind of journalism the Russians are experienced with.
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