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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#351

Post by the_optimist »

bladegash wrote: post #124
the_optimist wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect your perspective but wholly disagree with your conclusion. There is not a viable concept such as whether a journalist “enables espionage.” Journalism is necessarily adversarial, not pliant.

Thank you for the tactful disagreement and I appreciate your perspective. I also believe journalism is necessarily adversarial and should be allowed to exist with little encumbrance. However, I do think there is a line that needs to be drawn at some point as to what is journalism, versus what is propaganda for a specific agenda masquerading as journalism.

There's no way to draw this line. The vast majority of commercial journalism is propaganda, unsubstantiated by tangible facts and portrayed in directions strictly favorable to power and pleasing to the audience. Far from jesters speaking truth to power, commercial media are largely courtesans.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#352

Post by selectodude »

harry8 wrote: post #288
Ma8ee wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to nitpick on your logic a little. Your first two statements might be true without the statement that he is a world famous journalist is. Trump is world famous, and he's a golfer. But he's not a world famous golfer, at least not in the usual sense of the word.

Just to nitpick right back at you, if Assange had not published his journalism and its source materials you'd never had heard of him and he would not qualify as famous. So that makes him a world famous journalist. The idea that Trump is famous for playing golf is risible is your point but it does not apply here. There is nothing else that gained Assange fame other than publishing more scoops than any other journalist…

Half-assed document dumps aren't journalism. He's a leaker, he didn't put any of the documents in context.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#353

Post by [deleted] »

h0l0cube wrote: post #302
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknowledged.

Much was made of upholding the promise to withdraw troops from the Middle East in the last US election. You can bet Collateral Murder and a number of other Wikileaks publications helped sway public opinion of the US military presence in the Middle East

[deleted]

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#354

Post by raverbashing »

kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

"sobering view of how the world really works" for whom this is unexpected, which is to say, the most naive.

Laws don't go beyond who enforces them. And this is as expected, they're not an omnipotent/divine construct.

The general public view of Assange is not so great and it went down with time. Manning is probably viewed more favourably.

States that were too tolerant with those who "skirt the rules" (or just do very serious crimes) usually end up regretting it (or not living to regret it, which is worse). I would be very happy if those involved in some January events at D.C. got a similar treatment.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#355

Post by zepto »

pydry wrote: post #285
mrsuprawsm wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a sad sacrifice, though. Nothing (significant) has changed about the US's imperialism as a result of his disclosures, it's just mildly more acknowledged.

I think he probably had more of an effect than is obvious. Activism raises the political price to governments of making bad decisions. When the powerful change their position as a result of activism, they always try conceal it - the effect is far in excess of what they let on. In that light, I always found this story of the 6 scared, cold, humiliated and alone mothers of soldiers protesting outside the White House pr…

In assange’e case, the opposite is true. They were avoiding paying the cost before his leaks. Now the reputational damage is done and so there is less for them to avoid.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#356

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

iam-TJ wrote: post #337
mhh__ wrote: post #166

There is a lot of "he will be killed" in this thread. I suppose that's not impossible, but it seems remarkably brazen for almost no real benefit to the government.

"Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks" [0] 26th September 2021 Yahoo News Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks Zach Dorfman, Sean D. Naylor and Michael Isikoff September 26, 2021, 10:00 AM·39 min read In this article: In 2017, as Julian Assange began his fifth year holed up in Ecuador’s em…

Talk is cheap. Did they carry it out?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#357

Post by zepto »

ianhawes wrote: post #312
regnull wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> none of the “crimes” happened on US soil He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil. “ they charged him with conspiring to commit unlawful computer intrusion based on his alleged agreement to try to help Ms. Manning break an encoded portion of passcode that would have permitted her to log on to a classified military network under another user’s identity…

> He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil. IIRC Manning was in Iraq at this time. Were servers they accessed in the US? Probably. But that would be a crime Manning committed.

> a crime Manning committed.

With Assange as an accomplice.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#358

Post by fredstarr »

ceejayoz wrote: post #313
mercy_dude wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most infuriating among all of them has been our media - specifically mainstream media. They have played the entire saga down and in many cases many mainstream media pundits actively espoused for Assanges punishment [1]. I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. Mainstream media right now has no other purpose other than being active vehicle of the powerful and b…

> I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. That, uh, might be a bit of an overcorrection.

Overcorrection? No it is not. They enjoy misleading and diverting attention away from the things that really matter. Just take a look at these lawsuits:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/a-court-ruled-rachel-maddow...

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case...

Look, these talking heads are simply well-paid entertainers - nothing more. All they spew is lies, propaganda and downplay the things that are really happening. Unfortunately they have a willing audience in the majority of Americans who cannot see through all the bullshit. I personally cannot recall when last I tuned in to any of the mainstream media outlets.

So I'd recommend that they be stripped of all of those protections and get the same punitive treatment that we, the People (we are the ones who pay taxes, BTW), get when we talk shit. Trust me, that'll make them sit up.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#359

Post by dukeofdoom »

Legality of publishing leaked or stolen materials, is essential part of press freedom. So it will be an interesting case to watch to go through the US courts.

Recently James Okeefe was raided by the FBI. The reason was that he was given Ashley Biden's Diary (President Biden's adult daughter), and published things in it. He offered to return the diary to Ashley's Lawyers, but that would have authenticated it. The FBI raided him, which I suppose they would not do for a fictional diary. But I think its fairly obvious journalists should be able to publish leaked information. Not so obvious who the FBI works for.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/06/us/politics/james-okeefe-...

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#360

Post by deelowe »

jessaustin wrote: post #181
bladegash wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not talking about Hillary's emails. He leaked diplomatic cables. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikileaks-releases-classifie...

So what? A private citizen has no obligation to secrecy.

I'm guessing that's about to be tested in court.

The overarching question is at what point does a private citizen/activist become culpable. Developing technologies and social networks (old school kind, not facebook) which are explicitly designed to enable the stealing/leaking of state secrets would seem to be skirting pretty close to the line of "I'm just a private citizen/journalist." This is doubly true if said leaks end up putting military personnel and government assets in harms way.

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