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Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

bbc.com

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Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#311

Post by pydry »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #289
pydry wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This doesn't mean that any country can prosecute foreign people with arbitrary laws at their leisure, though. Most extradition agreements would require that the offense be a crime in both countries, for example. Ok but Anne Sacoolas ran over and killed a kid (definitely a crime here) and she wasn't extradited. While Julian Assange exposed a US war crime and is extradited because US espionage law literally counts tha…

Plenty of people get extradited from the US to face charges abroad. Sacoolas is more an exception than a rule. Likely the only reason why she would not be extradited is because she's a "diplomat" (aka a spook or the wife of a spook). It kinda sucks that the US protects members of its intelligence services from criminal charges abroad, but the fact that it does that is kinda irrelevant to whether other, unrelated extr…

>Plenty of people get extradited from the US to face charges abroad.

Sure. People whom the US doesn't give a fuck about.

"At their leisure" and "one rule for us; another for you" still applies. Sacoolas wasn't an exception in any meaningful sense. She is very much the rule.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#312

Post by ianhawes »

regnull wrote: post #216
lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

> none of the “crimes” happened on US soil He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil. “ they charged him with conspiring to commit unlawful computer intrusion based on his alleged agreement to try to help Ms. Manning break an encoded portion of passcode that would have permitted her to log on to a classified military network under another user’s identity…

> He is charged with helping Chelsea Manning to hack into a government computer which did happen on US soil.

IIRC Manning was in Iraq at this time. Were servers they accessed in the US? Probably. But that would be a crime Manning committed.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#313

Post by ceejayoz »

mercy_dude wrote: post #283
kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

The most infuriating among all of them has been our media - specifically mainstream media. They have played the entire saga down and in many cases many mainstream media pundits actively espoused for Assanges punishment [1]. I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does. Mainstream media right now has no other purpose other than being active vehicle of the powerful and b…

> I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does.

That, uh, might be a bit of an overcorrection.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#314

Post by klibertp »

bladegash wrote: post #240
ttybird2 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage" "Espionage" like publishing warcrimes. "I consider setting up a website purely designed to encourage leaking of potentially classified information and assisting with the ability to do so as being no different than any other criminal conspiracy" Transparency is a government duty. It is a shame but totally justified that private citizens h…

"Yet given how the events turned out it seems that he was right. He was hiding in the embassy in fear that they would try to send him to the US." If only we could all flee when faced with consequences for breaking laws that we disagree with. "Transparency is a government duty. It is a shame but totally justified that private citizens have to 3nforce it. As for "criminal", sounds like yet another victimless crime. If…

> If only we could all flee

Tell that to Snowden.

> There are absolutely reasons for state secrecy and

Sorry, I have to: that's just, like, your opinion man. Have you ever thought that you might be wrong on this? How about the state stops doing the things they need to keep secret? You may call it naive, but some will call it being just, you know?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#315

Post by vanusa »

pydry wrote: post #256
kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

I suspect Assange doesn't regret this. I kind of get the impression that becoming a martyr was a sacrifice he was prepared to make if he managed to rip off the mask and expose the unbridled imperialist evil lurking underneath the "civilized press conference veneer" presented by the US government.

What matters here is rule of law (and the fact that we live in a time where it is being increasingly eroded) - not Assange's internal psychological machinations.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#316

Post by michael1999 »

emilecantin wrote: post #208
lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

As a non-US citizen, that's what I find most troubling about this. Change the countries and it's immediately apparent how absurd it is: Imagine a US citizen living in Mexico exposed some Peruvian state secrets (doing something which isn't a crime in Mexico), and now Peru is applying pressure to extradite the guy. Chances are everybody involved would laugh in Peru's face, so why does the UK entertain this in Assange's…

Because the UK, and Australia are eager US vassals in this instance. They want to cooperate with the US government. The judges job here is to provide a fig-leaf of argument to justify what the executive clearly prefers.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#317

Post by ianhawes »

tootie wrote: post #306
lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

I dispute him being a journalist. He hosts a website for raw intel that is frequently stolen.

NYT, WP, ProPublica, etc all “host a website for raw intel that is frequently stolen”.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#318

Post by krisrm »

vbezhenar wrote: post #251
kstenerud wrote: post #204

This should be a sobering view of how the world really works. Above a certain threshold, every veneer of civilization vanishes no matter what the country (some have a higher threshold than others). At this level, only power matters. And the first rule of power is: Don't embarrass the powerful unless you can call on a lot of power to defend yourself. Laws can't protect you; they can be thwarted and bent, and the legal…

There are countries which do not bend before others. Russia, China, Iran to name a few examples. They can protect those fleeing from the West. Just like West can protect people from those countries. World is not unipolar.

Protect? Or use them as tokens in international tit-for-tat diplomacy?

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#319

Post by michael1999 »

cainxinth wrote: post #236
lettergram wrote: post #183

To fully appreciate the context: - he’s not a us citizen - none of the “crimes” happened on US soil - he’s a world famous journalist with prior work - was charged with bogus crimes in Europe in an attempt to arrest him. All dropped - the person who stole the files he released is already free and the tax payers paid for their transition

> “he’s a world famous journalist with prior work” That’s a claim not a fact. It’s also possible he was an asset for a hostile intelligence service posing as a journalist. I’m not normally one to side with Mike Pompeo, but I agree with his assessment on this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/us/politics/mike-pompeo-c... “‘WikiLeaks walks like a hostile intelligence service and talks like a hostile intelligence…

What exactly is the bright line between a good newspaper and an intelligence service that broadcasts information? News is that which someone doesn't what known.

Re: Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules

#320

Post by dukeofdoom »

bladegash wrote: post #83

The framing of Assange as an innocent “journalist” being persecuted for just doing his job is, in my opinion, disingenuous. I do not necessarily agree with all the actions the US Government has taken with him, or their handling of some of the information that was leaked. However, I do not agree that a “journalist” should be able to enable espionage, let alone encourage/incite it. In case my point is unclear, I consid…

If publishing leaked information is punishable by the state, than what kind of press would you have? Its precisely the most contentious things that the state wants to hide, is what often the public needs to know about.

The modern corporate press is bad enough as it is. But do you really want to live in a country where legit journalists are jailed for publishing things the government does not want you to know about.

Just this week, state prosecutor blanked out almost all the names on Epstein flight logs. Fairly obvious its in the public interest to know which powerful people went there. But powerful people will try to protect other powerful people.

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