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Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

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Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#121

Post by buffington »

hunterb123 wrote: post #106
rootusrootus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Isn't the intention to allow passengers to use the screen? If it were a separate screen in front of the passenger, this would be a good argument. But since it is the screen the driver is supposed to look at for driving-related information...

> supposed to look at for driving-related information... You should be looking at your instrument cluster, not the middle screen for essential driving related information. - edit - I stand corrected, there is no instrument cluster (only aftermarket ones I mistook for stock). So does this split the screen or take over the whole screen? If it splits it, I'm still okay with it, if it's the whole screen I'm not.

There is no instrument cluster in a Model 3.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#122

Post by ghaff »

kiba wrote: post #111
can16358p wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you, it brings the moral/legal dilemma about who is responsible when FSD kills someone. I'd love to see all cars being on FSD and communicating with each other around, dropping deaths (and even minor accidents) to virtually zero though.

The better solution is just to get rid of car and use trains and bikes more. Trains don't require FSD and yet they're incredibly safe. FSD exists only because we built our entire society around cars.

So people are only allowed to live or visit places with sufficient density that you're in cycling distance of a train station? (And heaven help you if you can't cycle for some reason.)

Even in countries with good train service and lots of cycling, this certainly isn't the case today. Good luck locking everyone up into urban areas.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#123

Post by ghaff »

beachy wrote: post #90
ars wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely nothing outrageous about this. There's nothing wrong with the passenger playing a game. There are plenty of other distractions in the world, if you can't stop yourself from looking at a screen while driving, you shouldn't be driving in the first place. It's not the job of the car to stop you.

By that logic, why not allow movies/video, ads as well while driving?

Imagine if Tesla made you a deal. We'll give you $1000/year if you let us display ads on your center console. Leaving aside how dystopian that would be, can you imagine that even remotely passing muster from a safety perspective?

Yes, drivers have lots of distractions. Some of which are unavoidable, some of which are generally considered acceptable (conversations that don't require taking hands off the wheel or eyes materially off the road), and some of which like texting which are totally on them. But that doesn't mean we should add more features that are just crying out to distract drivers further--especially given that every passenger absolutely has their own screen to play games or watch videos in their pockets.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#124

Post by lupire »

woeirua wrote: post #49
shmatt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incapable of performing anywhere near the level required to avoid accidents in the real-world. Humans, as well. 38,000 dead and 4,400,000 injured every year in the US due to car accidents. It would be cool to decide on a framework where FSD is tested/approved to be not perfect but better than the average human

> It would be cool to decide on a framework where FSD is tested/approved to be not perfect but better than the average human Just watch the YouTube videos from beta drivers (which are cherrypicked to be most flattering to Tesla). The number of disengagements in 20 minutes of continuous driving is disheartening.

Disengagements aren't a safety threat.

Most cars are permanently disengaged.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#125

Post by __s »

slibhb wrote: post #85
dragontamer wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone else trying this would be nailed to the wall, Elon pulls it off. That alone is quite a skill. PT Barnum, Elon Musk, Edison. More people pull it off than you'd think. Its an age old strategy of simply never admitting mistakes and hoping the American population ignores the mistakes. ------ Its what we like to call a "conman", you know... people who are really good at "confidence games" (what "conman" stands fo…

Calling him a conman given what he has achieved with electric cars and rockets is absurd. That's coming from a place of envy or resentment. Musk over-promises, and often, but what he delivers is impressive even if it doesn't meet his promises. Therefore he's no conman. The more interesting question is whether the over-promising is necessary if you want to achieve something substantial. Politicians certainly seem to t…

Over selling being necessary is a drag, & it exists in internal politics too. It's priced in, so giving someone a realistic schedule/budget causes two problems: they lower your expected range by thinking your realistic numbers are optimistic, & it breaks the lull that some project is going to save having to put in hard work still

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#126

Post by lupire »

rootusrootus wrote: post #99
ghaff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't need to be perfect but it needs to be a lot better than the "average" driver which includes intoxicated, fatigued, young, old, etc. drivers in all sorts of weather with many older vehicles with fewer safety systems and possible maintenance issues.

It needs to be better than the average driver, excluding intoxicated, fatigued, 16-year olds, etc. Otherwise, no sale.

Not if it's the drunk or 16-yr old's car.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#127

Post by misiti3780 »

slibhb wrote: post #85
dragontamer wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone else trying this would be nailed to the wall, Elon pulls it off. That alone is quite a skill. PT Barnum, Elon Musk, Edison. More people pull it off than you'd think. Its an age old strategy of simply never admitting mistakes and hoping the American population ignores the mistakes. ------ Its what we like to call a "conman", you know... people who are really good at "confidence games" (what "conman" stands fo…

Calling him a conman given what he has achieved with electric cars and rockets is absurd. That's coming from a place of envy or resentment. Musk over-promises, and often, but what he delivers is impressive even if it doesn't meet his promises. Therefore he's no conman. The more interesting question is whether the over-promising is necessary if you want to achieve something substantial. Politicians certainly seem to t…

A large portion of the users here are jealous of what he has achieved, and it's very obvious by the pile-on negativity any time an article with Musk in the text comes up.

You would have to be delusion to call him a con-man in 2021, but yet it is still happening. Oh well, as Taylor Swift famously wrote "haters gonna hate"

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#128

Post by voakbasda »

slibhb wrote: post #85
dragontamer wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone else trying this would be nailed to the wall, Elon pulls it off. That alone is quite a skill. PT Barnum, Elon Musk, Edison. More people pull it off than you'd think. Its an age old strategy of simply never admitting mistakes and hoping the American population ignores the mistakes. ------ Its what we like to call a "conman", you know... people who are really good at "confidence games" (what "conman" stands fo…

Calling him a conman given what he has achieved with electric cars and rockets is absurd. That's coming from a place of envy or resentment. Musk over-promises, and often, but what he delivers is impressive even if it doesn't meet his promises. Therefore he's no conman. The more interesting question is whether the over-promising is necessary if you want to achieve something substantial. Politicians certainly seem to t…

Calling him a conman is entirely accurate. He just happens to be a successful conman, so he still has his supporters.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#129

Post by spicybright »

hunterb123 wrote: post #100
spicybright wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but it doesn't mean we have to be ok adding even more temptations.

That's subjective and I disagree. There are near unlimited temptations already, adding another one does nothing. The onus is on the individual. How about we all just live in a bubble? That'll solve everything. - edit - Reaching for a cookie and violating your diet is not the same as forgetting to look at the fricken road. Either way though, it's your personal responsibility. You can't sue the cookie company because y…

Ease of access actually has a huge effect on how likely someone will reach for it.

Taking out the phone, mounting it to the dash, unlocking the screen, etc. vs tapping a few times on the big touchscreen already there are different levels of effort.

If you're on a diet, you're less likely to eat cookies if you have to go down the street to the store than if they're already in your cupboard.

Doesn't mean you're being oppressed by some cookie-proof bubble.

Re: Tesla Update Allows Video Games While Driving, and the Feds Aren’t Happy

#130

Post by nosianu »

hunterb123 wrote: post #104
givemeethekeys wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, while driving, the car gets into a wreck and it is found that the driver was playing video games while driving, then the car maker should be held at least partially liable. On the other hand, if the driver decided to install their own game system so that they can drive and game at the same time - that would make it solely the driver's responsibility.

If you're fiddling with the radio dial or anything else and not looking at the road should the car maker also be held accountable? No. Adults should be held accountable for their actions. It's not hard to pay attention to the road. - edit - To below, please don't quote out of context and put words into my mouth. Answer the question whether or not a manufacturer should be held accountable if a driver is fiddling with…

> Adults should be held accountable for their actions.

Great, we agree! Tesla and its managers and owners should be held liable then for adding distractions. Because humans are not being rational computers, but biological beings that very much react to incentives. Also see "dark patterns" and "marketing", all the many ways to trick human brains often into doing things against their own rational interest (like spending money they don't have for things they don't need).

That only the final person doing something is 100% responsible for all their actions only works for humans with no history and living in an isolation chamber.

I know that that could raise the made-up counter-argument "nobody is accountable for their actions", but acknowledging what is does not prevent society from judging actions. You can do both, judge individual actions but also recognize that incentives and the bigger picture matters. You can punish individual actions such as murderer (random example) and still do something to lower the rate at which they occur.

So anyone getting distracted sure can be held accountable - but we can also do something in advance that the number of such cases is lowered.

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