Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

661–670 of 755 posts

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#661

Post by antihero »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #579
anovikov wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing about claims (say display Crimea as part of Russia within Russia and as Ukraine elsewhere), but distorting SIZES of the places on maps according to someone's political preference is well... plain out ridiculous, laughable. It displays how messed up China is more than anything else. It's seriously hard to expect the place that does things like that, as a next superpower. You can't build a superpower on silly…

You should see the Gerrymandering maps in the US. It’s map distortion for political power, not just political posture.

There used to be an awesome online game where your challenge was to gerrymander constituencies. I had great fun and it was amazingly education. God knows what it was made in, possibly a Java Applet. I wonder if anything exists with modern tech.

Edit: It was this - http://www.redistrictinggame.org/game.php

It looks like someone has made one here though: http://gametheorytest.com/gerry/game/

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#662

Post by specialist »

pembrook wrote: post #501
klebe wrote: post #473

the top comments talking about maps, it's absolutely insane 'The agreement included a pledge from Apple to help Chinese manufacturers develop "the most advanced manufacturing technologies," "support the training of high-quality Chinese talents," use more components from Chinese suppliers, sign deals with Chinese software firms, collaborate with research in Chinese universities, and directly invest in Chinese tech com…

> It aches my heart to be a young man in this country and see this be our so-called 'leaders'. I'm confident the tides have already turned against all this nonsense, though, and I look forward to rebuilding industries of the world with good-hearted men & women I just got finished reading a book about the pre-war climate of 1930s Europe and man this comment sounds scary and nationalist. I’m worried that so many people…

Paraphrasing u/klebe:

Corporations extract concessions from US taxpayers. China extracts concessions from corporations. This is unfair. Why aren't US taxpayers getting the same deal as Chinese taxpayers?

Paraphrasing u/pembrook:

Something something nationalism. Whoa. Be careful. Corporations extracting wealth from US taxpayers is good for world prosperity. For reasons.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#663

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

int_19h wrote: post #287
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple shouldn't have to. There should be laws that US companies can only cowtoe to the US government WRT free speech. In this case - it appears to only be happening in China - which I guess is fair game. But the line should be drawn at China being able to use its market to force US companies to censor people outside of China.

> it appears to only be happening in China - which I guess is fair game. I'd say that depends on whether the subsidiary in China is financially independent from the mothership. If Apple in US profits from censorship in China or subsidizes it, it's not unreasonable for US to interfere with that.

I mean - companies are expected to follow the rules of the country they operate in.

I guess with tech companies - "operate in" is a little unclear. Someone in China can visit your website (assuming it's not blocked by TGF) - and it might be very difficult for you to know (they could be using some Proxy or VPN).

In Apple's case - they literally have stores selling phones in China. AFAIK, that's how most people get their iPhones in China.

In the US - you have to pass all kind of FTC obstacles to sell a device. In China & other countries - it's the same way.

It seems like an overstep for the US to say - "We get to say what devices are available in every country." It also seems like an overstep for the US to say China can't have a Great Firewall and Censorship even if that's extremely "un-American". Us having free speech is extremely "un-CCP" - but for the time being - we've still got it [=

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#664

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

jollybean wrote: post #639
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple shouldn't have to. There should be laws that US companies can only cowtoe to the US government WRT free speech. In this case - it appears to only be happening in China - which I guess is fair game. But the line should be drawn at China being able to use its market to force US companies to censor people outside of China.

I don't think you're grasping the power issue here. China could give a s*t what American laws are. They are pressuring Apple to take some actions, if Apple doesn't want to take those actions, for whatever reason including 'American law forbids them' - then they're out of the market. Those are the terms presented to them, and the CCP is not bluffing. As far as 'censoring people outside China' that is actually a line t…

That's fine. China SHOULD NOT have the option to tell American companies that they need to not have free speech in the rest of the world because China doesn't have free speech.

If that starts happening - American companies need to be FORCED to exit the Chinese market and keep free speech. Otherwise, it's a simple P&L calculation - and China will win. Apple is not going to lose 20% of their global sales because they block some Wikipedia articles about Tiananmen Square. But if China cuts off their sales because they won't - they would lose 20% of their sales. If we allow companies to go down this path - the entire world will end up censored pretty quickly.

Just as China does not care about American law - US companies don't give a shit about human rights. They just give a shit about P&L.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#665

Post by pbhjpbhj »

tooltalk wrote: post #565
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vietnam has 90 million people. South Korea doesn’t have much scale, Japan has a bit, the numbers only start making sense if we could develop a supply chain throughout Indonesia, Malaysia, maybe using talent and capital from Singapore. Or India and South Asia, of course, if things were more stable. But alas, stability is important. And none of those regions are very stable. > That's only inevitable b/c of Apple's poli…

>> Apple is like .1% of the political clout and lobbying being brought to bear Sure, as Tim Apple testified before Congress, Apple pays the most tax in the US and is also the most valuable company in the world. I'm pretty sure there is nothing going on between Apple and American/Chinese gov't. /s

>Apple pays the most tax in the US //

Interesting, how much, what percentage is that of Apple revenue and what percentage of total federal tax income?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#666

Post by pbhjpbhj »

reaperducer wrote: post #158
arcticbull wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and it's likely that China is the only place they could actually manufacture their products. China isn't the cheapest place to make things anymore, and it hasn't been in a long time - that's been supplanted by Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. It's even within spitting distance to manufacture in the US. Companies manufacture complex electronics products in China because everyone manufactures there. The skills are there,…

China is the only place they could actually manufacture their products And yet, the Apple products I bought for my wife this Christmas state "Made in Vietnam" on the box. And other electronics I've purchased for her recently were similarly not made in China. China hasn't been the "only" place to manufacture tech for several years now. It's an outdated cliché.

Don't know about Vietnamese laws, nor your local laws, but "made in Britain" can be put together in Britain. There's a good chance it's still relying on chips and circuits made in China?

China has never been the only place to manufacture tech ever South Korea, Japan, even Germany/France/USA for us in the UK (LG has grown phenomenally well the last couple of years, Japan in the 80s-90s was the place for UK electronics).

But China seems to have been the principal place for affordable consumer electronics [chips/circuits] for at least the last decade.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#667

Post by pbhjpbhj »

tooltalk wrote: post #79
arcticbull wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and it's likely that China is the only place they could actually manufacture their products. China isn't the cheapest place to make things anymore, and it hasn't been in a long time - that's been supplanted by Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. It's even within spitting distance to manufacture in the US. Companies manufacture complex electronics products in China because everyone manufactures there. The skills are there,…

Samsung is the largest smartphone-maker in the world (and has been for much of past 10+ years). They ceased all their phone-making operation in China and left for Vietnam a couple of years ago (also most recently closed their last display, shipbuilding operation) -- along with 200+ suppliers, plus 20+ new domestic suppliers created there along the way. Now, most of Samsung phones are made in Vietnam and their output…

>I just don't buy the argument that China as the world's electronic supply-chain can't be replaced. //

Of course it can. Manufacturing moved there over the last 30 years for the low regulation and particularly the low wages that keep manufacturing cheap and allow the bosses/owners to make more money. So, all you need is to accept less profit, which the controlling powers won't do without keeping wages/costs down to soften the blow - Western regulations on safety and workers rights means that's hard so prices will have to rise.

You might do it in a decade, but it'll hurt profits. Hence, USA politicians wading in with 'China can't be trusted all our allies must now buy electronics from us' ... which also helps y'all to spy on us too. Double win for USA.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#668

Post by pbhjpbhj »

echelon wrote: post #35
gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

If you're relying on growth to save you then you'll die like a locked-in morbidly obese person in a bed of shame and your own filth. It's unsustainable.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#669

Post by pbhjpbhj »

pupppet wrote: post #27

This will be the logical conclusion to every major American corporation unless someone puts a stop to this. If profit comes before everything, then so will China's 1.4B potential market vs US's 330M market.

It's ironic - China starts beating USA at growth based capitalism, USA starts using central control to try to beat China.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#670

Post by tablespoon »

systemvoltage wrote: post #591
tablespoon wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I honestly feel like NYTimes is not going to cover it for political reasons. I am happy to be convinced otherwise. Explain those "political reasons," please.

NYT is extremely predictable - both in its choice of what to inform its viewers as well as what will fit their political stance (globalists). If you need this to be spelled out, either you’re being rhetorical or you’re uninformed - I suspect the former.

> If you need this to be spelled out, either you’re being rhetorical or you’re uninformed - I suspect the former.

No, I suspect you have things wrong in this case, but you're being so vague it's difficult to figure out where the error is.

> NYT is extremely predictable - both in its choice of what to inform its viewers as well as what will fit their political stance (globalists).

Even if that's true, it's no reason to assume they wouldn't publish this story for some ideological reason, especially given they've published very similar things in the past.

Post reply on HN