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Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#401

Post by arcticbull »

908B64B197 wrote: post #369
sangnoir wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 in 3 people resident in Australia is an immigrant. I don't think Australia is losing the immigration game, all things considered.

The problem is, it's not a numbers game: quality matters a lot. Importing massive amounts of unskilled labor only depresses wages and, combined with NIMBY, creates a massive housing bubble thanks to artificial shortages. In Australia's case, it also suffers from a disproportionate brain drain of highly educated professionals since local firms simply won't compete for talent.

When you're discussing merging nations, it is in fact a numbers game.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#402

Post by nerbert »

borski wrote: post #306
bigmattystyles wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't they unavailable because they specifically didn't cave though?

No. They’re unavailable because they refused to go back into the market after China got caught using espionage. Were it not for that, it’s very possible Google would have caved; we don’t know how that would have fallen. It’s convenient they didn’t have to answer that, but not because they didn’t cave.

It’s not true though. They were under tremendous pressure to adapt their product and change it for the ccp (with censorship for example). They were constantly resisting by introducing workarounds. Until the espionnage thing when they said "fuck it, we’re done". I remember very well: I was living in China at the time.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#403

Post by jay_kyburz »

wolverine876 wrote: post #150
qeternity wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that people want companies to act with dignity, but the idea that a company, even one as large as Apple, is going to make any sort of difference with respect to China's oddities is wishful thinking. Apple has a business to run. They abide by all sorts of requests in various countries in which they operate. Of course there has to be a line somewhere, I'm just not sure this is it.

It seems fashionable to preach helplessness. Apple can't change China by themselves, but they are not by themselves. If we all follow that reasoning, then nothing ever happens. To surrender and retreat from the field of battle is a sure way to lose. Despair is a leading psyops tactic - targeted at enemies; let's not help them. It would be interesting to talk about what organizations like Apple can and cannot do; what…

Its not reasonable for us "we the people" to expect a profit seeking company to turn its back on profit. If we want it to behave a particular way we need to make rules for it to follow. Companies are no people with feeling and morals. They are machines for making money.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#404

Post by justicezyx »

lastbitwritten wrote: post #160
justicezyx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean no moral equivalency? Are you suggesting one is obviously superior than the other? Judging the behaviors in the 21st century, I think China is morally superior to US? Based on the wars invoked by IS, and the poverty elimination done by China. Obviously China improved Chinese citizens living standard dramatically, while US are doing the opposite across the world.

You are based in the US? Try posting that ‘The US is morally superior to China’ in China, and you are going to spend a lot of time being re-educated as to why that’s not true. But seriously, I just want to privately practice tennis.

No I totally think US is overall superior to China right now, when comparing 2 nations snapshot vs snapshot.

But, US perception on China is so bad compared the Chain perception on US, that this imbalance is creating a huge strategic risk between 2 nuclear super power, and causes both sides troubles when they need to collaborate.

That's why it's important to unshackle the US mass from the perception bias on China.

And that's what I want to convey. I.e., stop using grandiose sweeping argument like moral superiority, which is itself so large in scope that the comparison quickly lost any relevance.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#405

Post by wolverine876 »

misnome wrote: post #167
wolverine876 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fashionable to preach helplessness. Apple can't change China by themselves, but they are not by themselves. If we all follow that reasoning, then nothing ever happens. To surrender and retreat from the field of battle is a sure way to lose. Despair is a leading psyops tactic - targeted at enemies; let's not help them. It would be interesting to talk about what organizations like Apple can and cannot do; what…

How are they deceiving people outside China when only showing the difference inside China?

> How are they deceiving people outside China when only showing the difference inside China?

I must have misunderstood. Thanks for pointing that out.

We can find other examples, however. For example, Apple avoiding movies, etc. on Apple TV that challenge the CCP.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#406

Post by [deleted] »

davesque wrote: post #166
ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #50

Daring Fireball [1] has another passage from the article which is illuminating with regards to any promises Apple makes about how it will resist governmental pressure to compromise its products, vis-à-vis Apple's CSAM scanning tool. "Sometime in 2014 or early 2015, China’s State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping told members of the Apple Maps team to make the Diaoyu Islands, the objects of a long-running territorial di…

This level of pretense is really mind boggling to me. It underscores how certain regimes/people fear objective reality more than anything. And it's a very inconvenient position to take since objective reality is everywhere.

[deleted]

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#407

Post by zepto »

orangepurple wrote: post #362
ksec wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would anyone hold such an assumption. Because that is what Tim Cook Apple's marketing and PR suggest Apple does. The force of good. Social Responsibility and Justice. Standing up against the government. ( They didn't explicitly say this but the message is something fairly similar ) Instead of creating "insanely" great product for our customers, friends and family. It is now about product that "enrich" people's…

Standing up against the government is one of the messages of their anti-1984 ad.

No it isn’t. That was about standing up to IBM.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#409

Post by zepto »

wolverine876 wrote: post #150
qeternity wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that people want companies to act with dignity, but the idea that a company, even one as large as Apple, is going to make any sort of difference with respect to China's oddities is wishful thinking. Apple has a business to run. They abide by all sorts of requests in various countries in which they operate. Of course there has to be a line somewhere, I'm just not sure this is it.

It seems fashionable to preach helplessness. Apple can't change China by themselves, but they are not by themselves. If we all follow that reasoning, then nothing ever happens. To surrender and retreat from the field of battle is a sure way to lose. Despair is a leading psyops tactic - targeted at enemies; let's not help them. It would be interesting to talk about what organizations like Apple can and cannot do; what…

Apple is arbitrarily vulnerable to the CCP who can essentially shut down most of Apple’s worldwide manufacturing if it comes to that.

Until Apple has a redundant supply and manufacturing chain, it’s absurd to expect them to resist the CCP.

I hope they are building it.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#410

Post by thenthenthen »

xyzzyz wrote: post #235
judge2020 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google Search for example was heavily modified for the Chinese market. Do you mean something other than Project Dragonfly, which was terminated?

Google had been running search in China up till 2010, and it has been censoring its results according to Chinese government wishes. Then, Google found out that China has been hacking them, got angry and left.

They still maintain a rather large office in the university neighbourhood in Beijing. They even moved to bigger one few years back and there was a fire [0]. In Andrew Blum’s book Google is quotes to even “have left a couple of boxes there”, referring to network equipment. They have not really ‘left’.

[0] https://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2018/12/13/large-fire-erup...

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