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Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#191

Post by i_have_an_idea »

ethbr0 wrote: post #162
i_have_an_idea wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making a very good point. There's no Facebook, Google, Twitter, Snapchat etc in China. But there are WeChat, Baidu, Weibo, QQ, etc. China is more than capable to clone and/or make its own version of these companies. And these companies will do as the government says. So, I think that's an excellent example to show that tech "boycotting" China does nothing to change them. Separately, you should also keep in mi…

Whether or not China will clone an app is immaterial to question of whether all companies will fold to Chinese government pressure. There are many large examples that just didn't, and they exited the market. There are also many large examples that struck varying bargains. I'm sure the CCP didn't get everything they wanted from the referenced Apple deal, and there were hardliners who were pissed about it. And then the…

> Whether or not China will clone an app is immaterial to question of whether all companies will fold to Chinese government pressure.

It is very material though. If your business is not special/unique in some important way, then you don't have a lot of bargaining power when the CCP officials come to negotiate the terms. Then your choices boil down to -- accept whatever is offered or exit completely. While some exited completely, I very much doubt they did so on ethical grounds, as you seem to be implying. Rather, the terms were unsatisfiable.

Trying to get some sort of an acceptable to you deal is the only thing that makes sense from a business perspective. The alternative is losing access the world's biggest market and watching the state prop up a powerful new competitor that may well compete outside the borders of China too.

If you want American companies to be able to resist Chinese govt pressure, then you need to have significant intervention from the US government and hope that they will be able to broker some sort of a deal. Failing that, it's a joke to think that any company has any actual bargaining power in a negotiation with the Chinese govt.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#192

Post by kelnos »

didibus wrote: post #65
echelon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Reddit comment [1] on this same article really hit home, > Mr. Cook has watched China's middle class grow to four hundred million while watching the domestic middle class shrink. Like GM, which sells more cars in China than the USA, Apple knows where the market opportunities reside. America needs growth again, whether that's immigration, childbirth and childcare subsidies, or seeking to merge with other democratic…

> I want America to be #1. Free speech, being critical of government, and even having the ability to run for president are rights that every person should have In principle I agree with you, but in practicality something maybe isn't working as expected? If those things mattered so much, why would the Chinese middle class have grown so much while the American middle class shrank? (assuming this is true, which I'm not…

It still remains to be seen if these short- and medium-term gains for China's middle class will result in prosperity in the long term. "Selling" your social/political/religious freedom can often be a boon in the short term but come back to bite you later.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#193

Post by dublin »

acomjean wrote: post #144
silisili wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is big enough and rich enough that they don't need Chinese manufacturing. It is a nicety, and probably cheaper, but they could have probably picked about any country to do it and set up shop. As pointed out, Samsung does all their mfg in Korea and Vietnam. Oneplus setup shop in India for some devices...and Apple is much more powerful than BBK.

Their cpus are manufactured in Taiwan, which is kinda China. Those bleeding edge components are important to excellent performance of their products.

I'm sure China knows that if they do ever actually invade Taiwan, then there will be hundreds of agents, if not outright military actions, to destroy or sabotage the critical parts of Taiwanese industry rather than let them fall into the hands of the CCP. (For instance, I can't imagine any of the key ASML machines would survive without being quite thoroughly destroyed by thermite to keep their secrets from falling into Chinese hands.)

This would nearly completely cripple the world's tech economy for a decade, but that is far better then becoming vassals to CCP tyranny.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#194

Post by zerohp »

andy_ppp wrote: post #181

I personally do not trust China, should we not assume computer hardware made there has invisible backdoors? The security state for example believe 5G shouldn't be controlled by Chinese companies, I'm certainly not sure I really trust what I say on this MacBook Pro, is there a way to prove it's not compromised as everyone says it's definitely not but I can imagine the Chinese suddenly just switching off half the compu…

Many computer designs can be made by untrusted assemblers as long as the silicon fab, fusing, and packaging are trusted.

Most Intel machines are not designed for it.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#195

Post by tshaddox »

bell-cot wrote: post #31
ohmanjjj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple paid protection money. Pretty simple, no need to sugar coat it

That I am aware of, "protection money" clearly implies that the payments are to a criminal organization - which is separate from, and unauthorized by, the established state. The MacRumors story seems very clear that Apple and Mr. Cook's deal was with the Chinese government, and the ruling Chinese Communist Party. Do you have information to the contrary? Or is your point merely to voice anger at China, the CCP, Apple,…

> That I am aware of, "protection money" clearly implies that the payments are to a criminal organization - which is separate from, and unauthorized by, the established state.

The phrase is also very commonly used to refer to money paid to government officials who are corrupt. One could still quibble over whether this is technically “corruption” since it might very well be totally legal and encouraged under Chinese law, but I think the usage of the phrase here is quite suitable.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#196

Post by kelnos »

MangoCoffee wrote: post #161
beauzero wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One culture values a broad band of technical education...one values social education. One advances technically and one wrestles with social issues.

that's culture differences. it doesn't support or shown China invest more in its people. I'll argue, you don't need a lot of techies. you need people with vision like Steve Jobs, Jack Ma...etc. they don't have tech background and yet created giant tech company.

You need both, and you need a lot more "techies" than visionaries. Otherwise those visionaries just sit around at home with no one competent enough to execute on their vision.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#197

Post by philwelch »

kelnos wrote: post #115
gonehome wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these things have a corrupting influence on the principles of the company over time: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html It's better to figure out an exit (imo) than continue to capitulate on these kinds of things, particularly in a country that is hostile to foreign companies and IP (and particularly if one of your company values is the privacy of your users). --- >>Peter Thiel: Well I…

Not disagreeing with what Thiel is saying here, but it's pretty hypocritical for him to be criticizing here considering he's the co-founder of Palantir, a company that feeds some tasty tasty morsels to the surveillance state and military-industrial complex.

It’s only hypocritical if you find the American and Chinese governments morally equivalent.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#198

Post by judge2020 »

ntSean wrote: post #173
tonyhb wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, as much as people like to throw shade at Google, we can say that they haven't caved on this. That's a plus for them.

It’s not that they didn’t cave, Google products are unavailable due to sanctions. Google Search for example was heavily modified for the Chinese market.

> Google Search for example was heavily modified for the Chinese market.

Do you mean something other than Project Dragonfly, which was terminated?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#199

Post by loudtieblahblah »

gonehome wrote: post #14

Apple’s approach to China remains the most disappointing (and hypocritical) thing about the company. When privacy really matters for the users that need it most, Apple sells them out for continued access to the Chinese market. https://stratechery.com/2021/the-information-on-apple-in-chi...

every company - from privacy advocates to those cashing in on social justice - bow to China. Every, last one of them.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#200

Post by foota »

javajosh wrote: post #178
ryandrake wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenStreetMap has a page[1] on this. TLDR: Private individuals surveying is illegal in China, which seems to outlaw the entire OSM project and any participation or contribution. I am not a lawyer or expert on Chinese law so who knows. 1: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/China

That is rather chilling, is it not? That a nation would prevent its citizens from looking around and measuring what they see? I can't help but wonder how the chickens will come home to roost.

That's the chilling thing about Chinese censorship?
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