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Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#211

We can't trust multinationals with our data. They will sell us all out.

you can't trust them to protect our freedom of speech, our privacy, to save the environment, to care about how social media impacts kids, you can't trust them for anything, ever.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#212
post #95
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no moral equivalency between the US and China. Stop this right away.

Indeed - one of them killed about million innocent people in the last two decades, the other was focused on peaceful economic growth instead.

neither country has been focused on peaceful economic growth in the last two decades.

but their sins aren't equal, either.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#213
post #43
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China simply invested more in their people than USA it seems. You now see American business people like Elon Musk promote divestment from the USA in his attack on government deficits.

> You now see American business people like Elon Musk promote divestment from the USA in his attack on government deficits. Source? If that's true, that's disgusting.

https://electrek.co/2021/12/07/elon-musk-senate-not-pass-bui...

Context: The bill they're talking about is unusually porcine, to the point of overwhelming even cynics. Relevant example: Subsidies of $12,500 for electric vehicles, but only if they're made by a union. Because auto unions are major campaign donors.

Everybody always talks about "oh the government spends so much money on pork all the time, deficits are so big etc." but this is another level:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S

Federal spending as percent of GDP last year: More than triple the level present during the New Deal. >50% increase year over year.

It's unprecedented in peacetime. The only time it has ever been more as a percent of GDP is WWII, and in dollars (even per capita and adjusted for inflation) it's already more than WWII.

This year's proposals are a significant increase from that level.

The claim that to oppose the bill is to "promote divestment from the USA" is pretty bold.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is rather chilling, is it not? That a nation would prevent its citizens from looking around and measuring what they see? I can't help but wonder how the chickens will come home to roost.

I'm no sympathizer to the CCP, but I don't think this argument makes sense in our time. There's a big gap between a private individual looking around, and lots of private individuals coordinating to look at everything all the time. Modern technology is making that gap larger year after year.

That argument would be more appropriate if OSM was about something other than where the streets went.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#215

Daring Fireball [1] has another passage from the article which is illuminating with regards to any promises Apple makes about how it will resist governmental pressure to compromise its products, vis-à-vis Apple's CSAM scanning tool. "Sometime in 2014 or early 2015, China’s State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping told members of the Apple Maps team to make the Diaoyu Islands, the objects of a long-running territorial di…

I totally get that people want companies to act with dignity, but the idea that a company, even one as large as Apple, is going to make any sort of difference with respect to China's oddities is wishful thinking. Apple has a business to run. They abide by all sorts of requests in various countries in which they operate. Of course there has to be a line somewhere, I'm just not sure this is it.

I was at a company that defied the 1980s business embargo in South Africa. They said similar things at the time. The government of South Africa did fall, and most of the world applauded if I recall. The net effect for this business was, that they earned more money by ignoring the embargo, whatever the outcome. There are insulting names in most languages for this kind of behavior, it is not new.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#216
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You now see American business people like Elon Musk promote divestment from the USA in his attack on government deficits. Source? If that's true, that's disgusting.

https://electrek.co/2021/12/07/elon-musk-senate-not-pass-bui... Context: The bill they're talking about is unusually porcine, to the point of overwhelming even cynics. Relevant example: Subsidies of $12,500 for electric vehicles, but only if they're made by a union. Because auto unions are major campaign donors. Everybody always talks about "oh the government spends so much money on pork all the time, deficits are so…

Thank you for the context!

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung is the largest smartphone-maker in the world (and has been for much of past 10+ years). They ceased all their phone-making operation in China and left for Vietnam a couple of years ago (also most recently closed their last display, shipbuilding operation) -- along with 200+ suppliers, plus 20+ new domestic suppliers created there along the way. Now, most of Samsung phones are made in Vietnam and their output…

>I'm very skeptical that China is the only place Apple can make their products I'm skeptical as well since Foxconn also open a factory in India for Apple. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Foxconn-set-to-m...

And Samsung is able to produce a large share of their smartphones in Vietnam (180 million annual unit capacity). There's clearly no reason Apple can't further distribute production across India, Vietnam, Indonesia and a few other nations, while reducing dependency on China. The bigger issue is they want to continue to have privileged access to the Chinese consumer market.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#218
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing with what Thiel is saying here, but it's pretty hypocritical for him to be criticizing here considering he's the co-founder of Palantir, a company that feeds some tasty tasty morsels to the surveillance state and military-industrial complex.

Pointing out someone else's hypocrisy isn't an inconsistency. If someone says doing business with a military is unacceptable and then proceeds to do business with a military, they're a hypocrite. That's still true even if the person telling you this does business with a military.

> "If someone says doing business with a military is unacceptable"

Thiel hasn't even done that. His position seems to be that American companies should work with the US Military, but shouldn't work with the Chinese military. Such a position is certainly partisan, but it isn't hypocritical.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and it's likely that China is the only place they could actually manufacture their products. China isn't the cheapest place to make things anymore, and it hasn't been in a long time - that's been supplanted by Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. It's even within spitting distance to manufacture in the US. Companies manufacture complex electronics products in China because everyone manufactures there. The skills are there,…

Samsung is the largest smartphone-maker in the world (and has been for much of past 10+ years). They ceased all their phone-making operation in China and left for Vietnam a couple of years ago (also most recently closed their last display, shipbuilding operation) -- along with 200+ suppliers, plus 20+ new domestic suppliers created there along the way. Now, most of Samsung phones are made in Vietnam and their output…

Samsung likely has fewer suppliers compared to Apple. And it's much easier to coordinate its supply chain with other Samsung subsidiaries, even across borders.

China can as the electronics supply-chain can absolutely be replaced - at a cost.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is big enough and rich enough that they don't need Chinese manufacturing. It is a nicety, and probably cheaper, but they could have probably picked about any country to do it and set up shop. As pointed out, Samsung does all their mfg in Korea and Vietnam. Oneplus setup shop in India for some devices...and Apple is much more powerful than BBK.

Their cpus are manufactured in Taiwan, which is kinda China. Those bleeding edge components are important to excellent performance of their products.

Taiwan is an independent nation.
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