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OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

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Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#51

Post by terinjokes »

voteaccount1 wrote: post #27

You forgot to mention the constant kernel panics, there's a 70 page thread about it in the Lions discussion forum on apples website.

This is what got me to switch back to Lion. I probably could have lived with most of the other issues (the biggest: multimonitor setups), but the fact I could get to my desktop after login without kernel panicking was an issue.

I do presentations rather frequently, and the thing I feared was that it would KP during one of those. I plan on upgrading back up to Lion in another point release or two.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#52

Post by runjake »

It seems like the guy is just trolling/venting, but I've had the same thoughts of "Apple's Vista".

I don't want to add to alarmist dirt tossing, but I've been running Lion since the first public betas.

My thoughts each release as it evolved, long before Jobs resigned, were "I don't think Jobs is around anymore, if he were, he wouldn't let this crap go".

LaunchPad, Mission Control -- these things were neat at first, but then they got annoying and cumbersome.

The new concept of scrolling is not intuitive, whenever I use it, I still get this momentary interrupt in my brain.

It would be intuitive if my fingers were on the screen scrolling, but since they're on a trackpad that's about a foot and 90 degrees away from the screen, it's not intuitive to me.

The UI is getting more Windows control panelish, things are needlessly being abstracted or hidden, but I need these things regularly, so now I have to sort through 2 more views before I get to what I need, or worse, launch Terminal and use 'defaults write'.

I'm not sure why the Dock is there anymore. It feels superfluous with Spotlight search and the non-suck portions of LaunchPad and Mission Control around.

Instead of an elegant transition between Mac OS X and iOS, it seems like clunky patchwork.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#53

Post by overgard »

scott_s wrote: post #41
overgard wrote: post #24

What really annoys me is that they broke all my development tools for no good reason (where did gcc go?), broke my wireless, and the new features are underwhelming at best. If I had it to do over again I would definitely not upgrade.

You have to install the new version of XCode. That should pull in all of the relevant development tools. They're not a part of the standard OSX install.

That's fair enough, and thanks for the tip. I think my larger point is that I don't like that they actively removed something that was working fine for me. If it was a fresh install I'd be fine with it, but upgrading a previous install shouldn't be equivalent to "uninstalling stuff randomly" to me.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#54

Post by dadro »

commandar wrote: post #50
dadro wrote: post #37

Lion is not Vista. Vista (IMHO) had a rotten core where as Lion doesn't. There are, however, issues that I suspect will be fully resolved via another update or two. When I upgraded to Lion I experienced a few minor stability issues (particularly with Finder) so I performed a clean install. Have had no issues since. I would be curious to see stability of a machine that has been upgraded from 10.5 -> 10.6 -> 10.7 vs on…

>Vista (IMHO) had a rotten core Windows 7 would suggest you're dead wrong about this. W7 is largely Vista with some polish and a rebranding.

I'm not suggesting that at all. I think W7 is arguably the best OS Microsoft has released (except maybe for Win2k). At the time of Vista Microsoft was managing 2 seperate Kernels, one for consumers and one for servers. The 6000 build Vista was based off was (IMHO) a more bloated XP build.

They made a great move by consolidating to their Server kernel. Windows 7 reflects this in its speed and stability.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#55

Post by dmazin »

narkee wrote: post #3

I don't experience any of the issues the guy mentions in his article. Sometimes I wonder how some people's configurations get so wonky that they have all these issues. It's clearly an atypical case.

I have a 2007 white MacBook. Lion runs just great for me.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#57

Post by tptacek »

First, I think that to be fair, if you're going to say someone is having a "Vista Moment", they have to have bet a significant chunk of the company on the OS. When iOS 7 blows up, talk about Apple's "Vista Moment".

Second, I think there's an implication here that prior releases of OS X have been great. They have not been great. Snow Leopard was solid, because that was its only goal. Much of what Apple has attempted with each release of OS X has been unsuccessful; remember when people were upset by Spotlight's mdimport grinding machines to a halt, or Filevault messing up home directories?

The reason these things don't stick in our head like Vista is that Mac OS X is a lot less important to Apple than Windows is to Microsoft. And Vista wasn't that bad! We just obsessed on the market's poor reaction to it. The market for the most part doesn't care about OS X.

I also like "OS X Kitten" as the next OS name. That, or they should switch to Pokemon.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#58

Post by lzm »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #6

I upgraded my Macbook from Snow Leopard to Lion, then gave it to the girlfriend. She'd never used a Mac before. She didn't even notice that the scrolling was the opposite way round to other devices. Not until I pointed it out to her after she'd been using it for a while. I now use a Lenovo Thinkpad T420 with Ubuntu instead. It's come a hell of a long way over the past few years.

I'm having the same experience. I got a 2011 Air (my first Mac) and Lion seems pretty decent. Scrolling feels natural, and everything seems to work as it should.

My only complaints are the keyboard (as a programmer I really miss home/end/page up/page down), and that I can't reopen closed tabs in Safari.

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#59

Post by llambda »

yogsototh wrote: post #30
narkee wrote: post #3

I don't experience any of the issues the guy mentions in his article. Sometimes I wonder how some people's configurations get so wonky that they have all these issues. It's clearly an atypical case.

I have an iMac from 2007. And after upgrading I experienced most of these issues. Even thought I love most of new Lion features. I am happy to know, it works fine for most people. May I try to make a clean install. But if it doesn't work better, I'll have to downgrade. I don't think I have a "strange" configuration. I don't remind playing with the kernel or using very specific configuration.

Try a clean install. As always, this is the preferred method for upgrading. (This is because there can be user-installed software that had explicit dependencies on the older environment.)

Re: OS X Lion: Apple’s Vista moment

#60

Post by KirinDave »

narkee wrote: post #3

I don't experience any of the issues the guy mentions in his article. Sometimes I wonder how some people's configurations get so wonky that they have all these issues. It's clearly an atypical case.

I've experienced my own set of issues (oh god the kernel panics), but really, you haven't experienced anything he mentions? You don't feel like Mission control is a pretty big step backwards from even the old spaces UI (on a single monitor, it is)? You really haven't had problems or questions with the new fullscreen behavior? You think Launchpad is not pointless? You've _never_ had action misses on drag-and-drop to the browser?

Sometimes I wonder what people think they could possibly do with legacy configurations to cause problems like the ones described. Is there a com.apple.absurdly-slow-on-3-year-old-hardware.plist you're expecting to find hidden in their ~/Library/Preferences? Pebcac is real, but if the problem exists between the majority of computers and chairs for a given OS release, then maybe it's time to redefine the problem.

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