Earlier quoted context omitted.
you really should check with an attorney. to me this doesn't pass the sniff test. i work for an open source (AGPL) company, that uses one of my open source (MIT) projects as a core dependency. before i joined, i made sure that any code i write for my library continues to be MIT-licensed, no matter when and where i am writing it. additional code i write for the company also often starts out as a demo/PoC in my MIT rep…
Actually that's why I release the code on Apache/MIT combo. This way, I get to keep my code open source without forcing my company to release the modified code. Also there are no patent related issues as Apache handles that beautifully. This way, both of us get to be happy. All I want is that the original piece of my code is 1) mine for ever. Attribution wise. 2) open source for ever 3) every contributor to the code…
Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
271–280 of 339 posts
Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you (or anyone) please post it? I'm not even sure what phrase to Google for
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#273Many years ago I had a job offer at Badoo in the UK. After many rounds of going back-and-forth with the contract, me trying to better understand certain clauses, them going back to the lawyers, etc. I told them I'd be happy to sign if they removed the caluses that stated pretty much anything I created on or off hours belonged to them. They went back to the lawyers and came back to me saying that this is not the first…
Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends on the exact wording of your employment contract. If it only covers work you did with company property, you're lucky. As far as the law goes, in California (per Labor Code section 2870), employment agreements are allowed to assign the employer IP rights (including copyrights and patent rights) to inventions that satisfy any of the following: - "[Use] the employer’s equipment, supplies, facilities, or trade…
Ohh yes.. These contracts are always maximalist. That's why I never touch areas where my company can even remotely claim involvement. But these are extremely important points that must be always keep in mind by everyone who wants to contribute in open-source.
Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#275Many years ago I had a job offer at Badoo in the UK. After many rounds of going back-and-forth with the contract, me trying to better understand certain clauses, them going back to the lawyers, etc. I told them I'd be happy to sign if they removed the caluses that stated pretty much anything I created on or off hours belonged to them. They went back to the lawyers and came back to me saying that this is not the first…
To add an anecdote: on my last job search I got offers from two different but very similar companies (both around ~200 people). I got one first, read through the contract, saw the standard clause about owning your whole life. I told them it was a deal-breaker if we couldn't get it changed. I got the standard response "oh we never act on that, lots of people here have side-projects", etc. I told them if that was the p…
This is startups, though. YMMV with big companies. Still, no way I'd accept them owning my considerable volume of (FOSS) side-projects.
Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#276Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#277Many years ago I had a job offer at Badoo in the UK. After many rounds of going back-and-forth with the contract, me trying to better understand certain clauses, them going back to the lawyers, etc. I told them I'd be happy to sign if they removed the caluses that stated pretty much anything I created on or off hours belonged to them. They went back to the lawyers and came back to me saying that this is not the first…
This is something I dislike about the rise of DocuSign contracts: with paper, I can cross out clauses before signing and then the ball is in the other party’s court to decide if the result is acceptable. DocuSign makes this sort of flexibility much more difficult and is an implicit bias towards the employer’s side of negotiations. However, in CA at least, these clauses are limited by law and, as long as your employer…
Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
This. I developed a very large viral kind of game site that was acquired by Fox. I was an hourly dev and I was the only dev, working for a few money guys who made a bunch by paying me to develop it and then selling it literally without informing me. So I went from maintaining it for them (as one of several jobs) to suddenly being called by Fox to hand over the source code and also to sign a contract which said they o…
I am curious. Do you think it was just the 'how' that got this result? More specifically, if they opened with an actual money offer or grudgingly moved to that point eventually, do you think you would sell it. Or was the relationship kinda strained to begin with.
Part of this just comes down to the nature of large corporations. They were never interested in hiring an independent outside party, under any circumstances. At first, before they realized that their team would need my help, they simply declined my offer.
From my perspective, they were of course free to rewrite or extend for whatever uses the art/product they had purchased. But then they started calling me demanding source code, and explicit in that demand was the contract they wanted me to sign which would have given them ownership rights to it. The problem as I explained was, a good deal of that source was my own, proprietary stuff. Big parts of the game platform shared code DNA with other projects I was working on for other clients. I don't double-bill my time, but that meant each client was coming to me because I had developed a platform and a whole suite of GUI components in Flash that could be rejiggered to meet other needs without having to code everything from scratch each time. That's what made me cost-effective and quick; it's part of the reason I was hired, and my clients understood that when I did code for them, some of that DNA might get reused in unrelated projects. So not only would I be giving away rights to code which other clients had rightful use of (potentially exposing them to lawsuits from Fox), but I would be left without the dozens of modules and packages that made up my toolkit, which was my livelihood.
And all of this they expected me to do for free, in exchange for a contract which would have made me their employee at half my rate. I certainly had no intention of ever becoming a Fox employee, even if they tripled my rate. This fact seemed to elude them.
So, it's not really how they asked - although that was offensive, and their attitude that they had all the power in the situation certainly didn't make me keen to help them. It's that what they were asking for would have destroyed my career. And besides that, I felt I didn't have a right to sell those packages at any price. They refused to acknowledge that they would have to share the code with my future projects and other things already in the wild, and that they had screwed up and didn't own what they thought they did. That they had bought the game, not the platform. If they had asked me for source and not demanded the rights to it, with or without paying me to help them transition, the game might have lasted a long time. Instead they tried to decompile it, couldn't figure it all out, left a half-broken version up for a couple weeks and then abandoned it.
Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your example is foolproof, but there's always a bigger fool? How do you prove that your commits weren't made on company time? How do you prove that they weren't made on company laptops? How do you prove that you didn't include trade-secrets in your implementation of these libraries? You can show that your commits were made at hours outside of office hours, you can show that the commits were made with your personal e-…
yeah... somebody needs to always make sure not to be the bigger fool... 1) Git commits have timestamps. 2) Proving I did on company laptop is their onus. Innocent until proven guilty. ;-P 3) I do that. Along with randomisation of sample data. but yeah, you make a very important point in general. 99% of people get screwed on such things. 4) If I do something using company laptop, it is bound to be logged somewhere. Al…
Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs
#280Many years ago I had a job offer at Badoo in the UK. After many rounds of going back-and-forth with the contract, me trying to better understand certain clauses, them going back to the lawyers, etc. I told them I'd be happy to sign if they removed the caluses that stated pretty much anything I created on or off hours belonged to them. They went back to the lawyers and came back to me saying that this is not the first…