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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#951

Post by fithisux »

nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

It is exactly the same in Greece. They transition from public to private, they try to hide it and make profit over the deaths with the vaxxes.

There maybe more depth in their motives. But this is the surface.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#952

Post by GekkePrutser »

serial_dev wrote: post #271
bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

It's so strange how that differs so much. I'm not as healthy as you and the vaccine didn't bother me at all. Ok the second time it felt a bit like I had bumped my arm a bit.

Sorry to hear it gets so bad for you though. I understand that makes it a much harder decision.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#953

Post by elorant »

xdennis wrote: post #710
elorant wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No democratic country is built to handle something like a pandemic. That much became clear the last two years. You need to be able to mandate strict laws that take away a lot of liberties that we have learn to consider as standard.

> No democratic country is built to handle something like a pandemic. That much became clear the last two years. Much of the measures have been justified by saying they're temporary in place under the emergency. Two years of temporary measures, and now people are saying they need to be permanent.

We had to have stricter rules from day one. Also make vaccination mandatory. Take the hard decisions in the start instead of let this thing dragging for years before you decide to take the political cost. I live in Europe and watching this thing unravel it has been one clusterfuck after another. Lockdowns which weren't actually lockdowns except for closed shops, mandatory masks without any supervision so it's all comes down to personal responsibility, summers where all rules were suspended so we can welcome tourists, and so on and so forth. I'm sick and tired of it all. We need politicians to act like adults.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#954

Post by GekkePrutser »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #849
swader999 wrote: post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Focus on early treatment. Drugs like ivermectin, hcq, fluvoxamine

Ivermectin and hcq do nothing for covid. No idea what fluvoxamine is.

It's an antidepressant. I don't think it has any effect on COVID, either proven or rumoured.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#955

Post by honkdaddy »

standardUser wrote: post #494
atsaloli wrote: post #442

I was born in Soviet Russia, where the party line was: there is no God, there is no Soul, there is no Truth, and truth is what we tell the people. My family came to America to get away from that savage society and to live in a free country, based on voluntary cooperation (free market) not force and violence and coercion. In communism, the group is all and the individual is nothing. I do not believe it is okay to viol…

Vaccine mandates are already ubiquitous across the Western world (and the non-Western world). In most cases, it is infants and children having a "medical procedure" forced on them. Your point still stands, but in reality an overwhelming consensus exists that vaccines are an acceptable exemption to bodily autonomy. EDIT: I didn't make an argument, I only stated uncontroversial facts. Would love an explanation of downv…

You think there’s an overwhelming consensus that bodily autonomy ends when a vaccine is concerned?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#956

Post by wjnc »

int_19h wrote: post #450
wjnc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter argument: Medical personel is hard to find and expensive, as is IC infrastructure. Why would we've needed to keep spare IC capacity for decades only to find out we need it in case of a pandemic? The German argument could be re-constructed into an argument that any country will run into IC shortages regardless of the level of IC availability. In an exponential curve it's only three or four cycles (8-12 days?)…

How expensive is it as a percentage of overall healhcare spending?

There is no easy answer to that question to my knowledge. All of what hospitals do is translated into the Dutch equivalent of diagnosis-related groups. Those DRGs are standardized across the hospitals doing procedures. Insurers bargain with hospitals (usually on a higher level) for price-setting. So while there are DRGs that probably have a large IC-component, most have only a little. So the costs of IC are reimbursed via all treatments that have an average IC-component.

A hospital with a good cost based activity system could probably tell you more, although that would require a very high measure of control.

Dutch press just reports the general direction of (internal) prices for IC-days (about € 3k / night). That really is nowhere close to the proper answer to the question "How much would expansion cost?" The sum based on that € 3k would be: €3k * 365 * 65% * 1200 = about € 850 million for the whole of IC-care. That is a low figure for the Netherlands (€ 25 billion total medical specialist care), so I expect a lot of the IC-costs are absorbed by other DRGs or the other way around: that price doesn't include all of the fixed costs and is a marginal price.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#957

Post by oezi »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #297
bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

> booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future This is the most stupid thing about vaccination plans. It's one thing to get vaccinated once, it's another thing entirely to need frequent boosters. I expect a lot of confusion and operational carnage when people who don't get a booster become "unvaccinated".

But this is just conjecture that we might need another booster so soon. Many vaccines require 3 shots initially and then boosters every 10 years.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#958

Post by oezi »

tomp wrote: post #681
ryandrake wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make anti-vaxxers even more convinced that this is a big conspiracy. You could say this about any law that enforces some uncomfortable behavior change. Anyone who remembers when seat belt laws became real, sees history repeating…

> COVID has been a challenge for the same reason Climate Change is challenging: They both require collective cooperative action from people, and you can't rely on everyone having a natural desire to do the right thing No, it's challenging because people know they're being manipulated and taken advantage of. As with COVID, as with climate change. Mayor of SF enacting mask mandates while dining/partying unmasked. Elite…

People are manipulating themselves to win the Howard Cain award.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#959

Post by Klemotio »

raxxorrax wrote: post #920
Klemotio wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sooo any proof for your thoughts on the missing benefits of a vaccinated person u der 60? Wild statement to make without any numbers.

The numbers of people dying from Covid. Germany has 100,000 dead people and ~5000 are under the age of 65. But you cannot stop there, you need to incrementally look at age correlated data to see a picture. Here is a start: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105512/coronavirus-covi... Covid is a serious disease, but we are talking of mandatory vaccination and I don't think that it can be justified for younger age gr…

So you don't think it's critical for younger people to be less infections?

Having also less risk from the vaccine itself (which got injected into over 4 billion people) in comparison to COVID?

I disagree.

Lucky for me in this discussion, experts and politics are also now more inclined to have mandatory vaccination.

Mandatory vaccination exists in Germany for other things as well. I totally think it is reasonable.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#960

Post by sleepysysadmin »

dmix wrote: post #385
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. So I'm kind of surprised to see this. I was under the impression Germany was the opposite. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/hospital-beds Germany is #2 out of those reporting. Crushing Canada by like 300…

> Furthermore Bill 124, introduced in 2019, disincentivizes nurses by limiting wage increases. Many nurses have said repealing the bill would go a long way in retaining nurses. Others say removing barriers for internationally educated nurses would help fill in gaps. Wow, why is there the wage cap when nursing has long been an issue in Ontario? I wonder who thinks this stuff up and thinks they are somehow saving money…

>Wow, why is there the wage cap when nursing has long been an issue in Ontario? I wonder who thinks this stuff up and thinks they are somehow saving money by doing this. It just generates inefficiencies and unintended side effects.

Bill 124 has nothing at all to do with Nurses. The word 'nurse' does not show up even once. This bill is effectively what put doug ford into power. That is to say, he was elected to pass this one. It is more than required.

As you likely know Ontario is the highest debt subnational in the world. The mcguinty government was in power for ~10 years but did so by buying votes. They had so many gigantic scandals and might be one of the worst governments ontario ever had. Hilariously, the PCs approach was to tell ontario he was going to fire 100,000 people. That obviously didn't go well giving Wynne a majority.

However, Hudak was right, 100,000 less people in government. Because we didn't... we are in a far worse situation. Pre-covid ontario was very bankrupt. It was so bankrupt Wynne was forced to sell off highly profitable assets like Hydro1. Now that covid happened? I dont even know what will happen.

>Whenever there's problems like this there's always seems to be a long trail of government interference that's counterproductive.

The consequences of decisions in either way is difficult and rarely properly assessed. As Greece knows, someone eventually ends up holding the garbage bag and has to clean up.

These are the consequences of decisions made.

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