Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#381

Post by throwaway47292 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

88840-8855 wrote: post #357

throwaway47292 wrote: post #335

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

I fully disagree; this matter is not a question of an opinion. There is absolutely not a single convincing reason why shots should not be mandatory. If people like you will join the riot against it, I will join the riots against the rioters. We finally need Ordnung in society and it cannot be that opinionated people "iT sHoUlD bE nOt MaNdAtOrY bUt I aM PrO VaX, iT iS bEcAuSe oF tHe GrUndGeSeTz" or uneducated should d…

> I fully disagree; this matter is not a question of an opinion. There is absolutely not a single convincing reason why shots should not be mandatory.

Isn't the the reason of "someone doesn't want it" enough?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#382

Post by TulliusCicero » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

Krasnol wrote: post #186

locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

There was a paper recently circulating the media which shows the immense amount of "esoteric" people in German speaking countries. Those people are responsible for the staggering vaccination numbers and spreading of conspiracy myths around this crisis. It's so prevalent, I can't remember anyone who at least once spread some unscientific bullshit in the last 2 years here. The handling of those people in the media and…

By esoteric you mean pseudoscience believers, homeopaths and the like?

Recently moved back from Germany after five years there, homeopathy depressingly common and accepted there, even by many medical professionals.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#383

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

throw20211202 wrote: post #216

user-the-name wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden had mortality rates nearly 10x those of their neighbours.

Not really, though: * Sweden: 1,485 * Denmark: 500 * Finland: 244 * Norway: 199 * Iceland (not really a neighbour, being a 1000 miles away, accross an ocean): 102 Some more random cherrypicking: * USA: 2,414 * Italy: 2,221 * Belgium: 2,322 * UK: 2,124 * Russia: 1,901 * Peru: 5,984 Deaths per million capita, as of 2nd december 2021, from[1]. [1] All numbers from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#384

Post by standardUser » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

bijant wrote: post #64

shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

You sound dismayed that vaccines don't work in a more simplistic manner. These CDC charts on vaccine schedules may provide a better picture of the general complexity of immunization.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/index.html

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#385

Post by dmix » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #95

nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

>What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. So I'm kind of surprised to see this. I was under the impression Germany was the opposite. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/hospital-beds Germany is #2 out of those reporting. Crushing Canada by like 300…

> Furthermore Bill 124, introduced in 2019, disincentivizes nurses by limiting wage increases. Many nurses have said repealing the bill would go a long way in retaining nurses. Others say removing barriers for internationally educated nurses would help fill in gaps.

Wow, why is there the wage cap when nursing has long been an issue in Ontario? I wonder who thinks this stuff up and thinks they are somehow saving money by doing this. It just generates inefficiencies and unintended side effects.

Whenever there's problems like this there's always seems to be a long trail of government interference that's counterproductive.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#386

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #274

locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

No democratic country is built to handle something like a pandemic. That much became clear the last two years. You need to be able to mandate strict laws that take away a lot of liberties that we have learn to consider as standard.

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#387

Post by est31 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

novaRom wrote: post #365

est31 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany had elections at the end of September, and I feel that this is the main reason for the catastrophy that is unfolding now. It has prevented the ruling parties from imposing stricter vaccination requirements more early on. They could have easily required everyone to be vaccinated by November first, and this current situation would have been spared. Now the government still has to do it, but they need to rush it…

This current wave moves from the east to the west. In fact, Germany has probably peaked, we have 4 days in a row of declining number of infections. France is at the beginning of the next wave, their number of today's infections is approaching German numbers. source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

Note that German infrastructure is at its limits in terms of how many tests can be done or whether the health office can track down the people a known covid case has been in contact with. Due to the sheer size of the wave, the percentage of unknown covid cases has increased.

source (German): https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/rki-zahlen-corona-125.html

But yes, there is a strong west/east and north/south gradient in terms of incidence.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#388

Post by worik » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct.

But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism.

Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing them to comply is probably a cure worse than the disease - even a disease like COVID

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#389

Post by wussboy » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

furgooswft13 wrote: post #305

ryandrake wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make anti-vaxxers even more convinced that this is a big conspiracy. You could say this about any law that enforces some uncomfortable behavior change. Anyone who remembers when seat belt laws became real, sees history repeating…

You can take the seat belt off when the car ride is over. Also if you are caught without one you get a small fine, but you don't lose your job and the ability to participate in society.

Because your refusal to wear a seatbelt presents no risk to others. But vaccine refusal does present a risk. So the stakes of the game are not the same.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#390

Post by TulliusCicero » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

fileeditview wrote: post #138

fabian2k wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

The argument always is that there are not enough beds for non-corona patients. More beds would certainly help. It is nonsense to vaccinate young and very healthy people, especially kids. Their risk from COVID is minimal to non-existent. Also the spread is not stopped by vaccinating. Vaccinated still spread the virus. If it is reduced is still unclear. There was a study in GB that showed the incidence numbers in vacci…

Vaccines do reduce spread.

While vaccinated people who get infected still spread the virus, they’re less likely to get infected in the first place, which is a necessary precursor to spreading.