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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#911

Post by disambiguation »

_moof wrote: post #572
guilhas wrote: post #321

The future looks grim with governments mandating health procedures on the population against their will

All kinds of vaccines have been mandatory for generations. You wouldn't have been allowed to attend school if you hadn't had loads of them. In the US for instance all schoolchildren are required to be vaccinated against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, varicella, measles, and rubella, and almost all states also require vaccinations against mumps and hepatitis B. So please don't act like requiring vaccination is…

All kinds of vaccines are also not required, namely the flu vaccine, which covid arguably has more in common with than any of the other diseases above.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#912

Post by Klemotio »

spookthesunset wrote: post #187
fsh wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a bizarre take. If the ICUs are filling up, the solution should be to prevent people from getting sick, not to make the ICUs bigger. There are undoubtedly many problems in the German healthcare system, but the current surge is clearly due to the very large number of unvaccinated people.

the two weeks were to build up health care capacity. We erected field hospitals to manage the sick and then closed them because they weren’t being used. If this truly is an energy and hospitals truly are at risk, find a way to build more capacity even if it is temporary. Blaming the public for the failure to do this is wrong. And if you aren’t building this capacity… maybe this really isn’t an emergency?

You understand what exponential growth is? Yes? No?

You know that is hard to get people? You know how long it takes to teach someone? Especially while a pandemic is ongoing?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#913

Post by VortexDream »

nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

I'm terrified by the fact that there are so many antivaxxers in Germany that they're showing up here too, as supposedly educated and intelligent peers. It is absolutely the fault of unvaccinated that they're unvaccinated and putting society at risk. It doesn't matter how many ICU beds and staff you have, an unvaccinated population would quickly overwhelm it simply by virtue of how incredibly long it takes to recover and how quickly new strains would develop.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#914

Post by disambiguation »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #350
guilhas wrote: post #321

The future looks grim with governments mandating health procedures on the population against their will

I'd rather be vaccinated than someone force Covid on me. To me, if you choose to be unvaccinated, you are showing how little you care about those around you and how little you care if they die.

Is an unlisted side effect of the vaccine self righteous bottom feeding?

Seriously have you donated blood this year? Or anything you all?

Being vaccinated is not a free ticket to make value judgements on everyone else's sense of compassion.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#915

Post by raxxorrax »

_moof wrote: post #79
fileeditview wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

I might be working from old info here but my understanding is that vaccination reduces the ICU burden. Assuming that's still good info, is it totally unreasonable to blame the unvaccinated for ICU overload?

It is not totally unreasonable but there is a component of blind blame to it. It will become a discussion after the pandemic and I don't think this will be too beneficial for our public health care system and health insurance.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#916

Post by TheRealNGenius »

lorenzfx wrote: post #677

I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.

Yeah, some of us actually think for ourselves weighing the opinions of experts alongside statistics in order to make informed decisions instead of blindly following what some governmental entity claims is in our best interest and forces upon us as the truth :)

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#917

Post by bsaul »

aspyct wrote: post #908
crooked-v wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With exponential spread, the actual number of ICU beds really doesn't matter, because whatever you've got will be overwhelmed across a similar timeframe anyway. The only way to actually fix the problem is to get the R-value below 1, which requires mass vaccinations.

It doesn't requires mass vaccination. It requires people to be a little smart. What if we all respected the first confinement? 6 weeks everybody at home, period. The disease would be gone. But no, oh no. People just can't be reasonable. So instead of 6 weeks, we've been dealing with this shit for almost two years. And now you blame those who are unvaccinated, while vaccinated people go partying and spread the disease…

this disease is also spreading through animals and wildlife. Locking down humans would have most surely not put an end to it

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#918

Post by timdaub »

xdennis wrote: post #571
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

Your logic is insane. There are countries were a majority agrees with female/male circumcision. I guess you'd be the first to go slashing at people's genitals because the minority is holding everyone back.

You way of arguing is exaggerated. Of course, I'd strongly oppose such decision.

It's an entirely separate issue that has nothing to do with ICU beds, vaccines and a pandemic.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#919

Post by fileeditview »

WickyNilliams wrote: post #606
fileeditview wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument always is that there are not enough beds for non-corona patients. More beds would certainly help. It is nonsense to vaccinate young and very healthy people, especially kids. Their risk from COVID is minimal to non-existent. Also the spread is not stopped by vaccinating. Vaccinated still spread the virus. If it is reduced is still unclear. There was a study in GB that showed the incidence numbers in vacci…

> There was a study in GB that showed the incidence numbers in vaccinated was just as high or higher than in unvaccinated I would like to see the source for that if you have the link?

A bit late reply but I was asleep. You can find the report here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

There is a lot to digest and probably it's easy to come to the wrong conclusions from this. I was referring to Figure 2.(a)

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#920

Post by raxxorrax »

Klemotio wrote: post #900
raxxorrax wrote: post #895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The egregious part is that they reduced ICU beds last summer, they even had monetary incentives to reduce them. Meanwhile vaccinating anyone But people here are afraid (typical) and even demand harsher policies. They also seem incapable to hold political leaders to account. Politics basically failed to prepare for the next wave, which was known to be happening quite a long while ago. Instead we had an embarrassing sl…

Sooo any proof for your thoughts on the missing benefits of a vaccinated person u der 60? Wild statement to make without any numbers.

The numbers of people dying from Covid. Germany has 100,000 dead people and ~5000 are under the age of 65. But you cannot stop there, you need to incrementally look at age correlated data to see a picture.

Here is a start:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105512/coronavirus-covi...

Covid is a serious disease, but we are talking of mandatory vaccination and I don't think that it can be justified for younger age groups.

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