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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#901

Post by Klemotio »

fileeditview wrote: post #71
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

And what did you to help out?

Did you suddenly switch your job to become a nurse?

How do you think we would have been able to ramp up everything while in a pandemic?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#902

Post by blub »

Krasnol wrote: post #720
fileeditview wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

> So true and not mentioned enough by the media. This is nonsense. The topic has been in the news almost from the beginning of the crisis. The government is being constantly criticised for that. Why do you people repeat this? It's a lie. The fact that this topic is now being used by anti-vaxxers to cloud their anti-social behaviour and shift the growing anger of the vaccinated population away from them is ridiculous.…

Not getting vaccinated is not antisocial, assuming that those people take care otherwise.

The only people which exhibit antisocial behavior are those that don’t care about protecting themselves and others from infection. Wearing a mask, avoiding meeting others and getting tested is just as valid as getting a vaccine. Perhaps more, because those that do get vaccinated (at least among my acquaintances) seem to wrongly assume that the vaccine is enough and don’t take any other measures except what they must (masks). So they’re meeting in groups, going to restaurants without getting tested, etc.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#903

Post by apexalpha »

raxxorrax wrote: post #895
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

The egregious part is that they reduced ICU beds last summer, they even had monetary incentives to reduce them. Meanwhile vaccinating anyone But people here are afraid (typical) and even demand harsher policies. They also seem incapable to hold political leaders to account. Politics basically failed to prepare for the next wave, which was known to be happening quite a long while ago. Instead we had an embarrassing sl…

Meanwhile vaccinating anyone

This isn't exactly true. People under 60 have a smaller risk to get to the Hospital/ICU but it's definitely not 0. There is also still a very real risk for Long-Covid and other complications from it. This gets even worse when said For your reference, in the Netherlands about 89% of 18+ people have been fully vaccinated. Yet the 11% unvaccinated make up 50% of Hospital beds and more than 70% of ICU beds. Looks at this image from our Minister of Health: https://twitter.com/hugodejonge/status/1466482208995164175

It's in Dutch but you'll get the message.

Furthermore, even if you are somehow not at risk of Covid, and you would magically know this about yourself it is STILL a good idea to get the shot because it reduces your chances of getting it (and passing it on!) and even if you get it your viral load is lower so the chances to spread it are reduced.

Stop making up arguments and get your bloody shot.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#904

Post by raxxorrax »

daddylongstroke wrote: post #830
Krasnol wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So true and not mentioned enough by the media. This is nonsense. The topic has been in the news almost from the beginning of the crisis. The government is being constantly criticised for that. Why do you people repeat this? It's a lie. The fact that this topic is now being used by anti-vaxxers to cloud their anti-social behaviour and shift the growing anger of the vaccinated population away from them is ridiculous.…

Why are the vaccinated so threatened by the non-vaccinated in Germany? Why the anger? Why the fear?

This is sadly very typical behavior at this point. You don't have to fear unvaccinated people, the protection you get is from the vaccine alone. What you might want to fear is a triage for which healthcare funding is solely responsible. Perhaps unvaccinated take up more beds, I am not really sure we can trust the data though because there will be insane political pressure to keep that on the message.

I hope blaming people not at all involved in current miseries becomes a popular sport again.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#905

Post by Klemotio »

marton78 wrote: post #126
crooked-v wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With exponential spread, the actual number of ICU beds really doesn't matter, because whatever you've got will be overwhelmed across a similar timeframe anyway. The only way to actually fix the problem is to get the R-value below 1, which requires mass vaccinations.

The spectre of exponential spread is summoned way too often. Yes, an epidemic spreads exponentially when it starts, but also it's self limiting after a while. The 4th wave is wearing of already. Every wave so far has worn off in every country, with our without measures. As a recent example, compare Latvia and Estonia in the past few months. The former imposed strict measures, while the latter didn't, and yet the two…

It's getting down because you are hearing those numbers in the news every day.

What expert are you? What are your numbers to determine that corona without measurements would not create a new york or Italy event across Germany?

There is probably a reason why you are not a virologist. Or do you have your own model numbers?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#906

Post by raxxorrax »

burntbridge wrote: post #736
fileeditview wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

I'm sure what you are saying is true but it doesn't really address the problem at hand. The bird has flown the coup and now action needs to be taken to save lives. Absolutely agree with you about hospital/medical resourcing though, we have the same situation in Australia. In the name of efficiency these services get paired to the bone, and we have no capacity to respond to unusual events. The Neo liberal worldview po…

What would save lives would be a lockdown again.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#907

Post by raxxorrax »

hncurious wrote: post #709

If we were a serious society, then the conversation would be about: immune vs non-immune high risk vs low risk infectious vs non-infectious But no, it's jabbed vs unjabbed. It doesn't make sense. Everyone in Germany who wants the vaccine has had it, and if you've had Covid, you're about as protected as the vaccinated. Furthermore, leaky vaccines don't prevent transmission, can't eliminate the virus (animal reservoirs…

> Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric.

It is the German gene.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#908

Post by aspyct »

crooked-v wrote: post #115
fileeditview wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

With exponential spread, the actual number of ICU beds really doesn't matter, because whatever you've got will be overwhelmed across a similar timeframe anyway. The only way to actually fix the problem is to get the R-value below 1, which requires mass vaccinations.

It doesn't requires mass vaccination. It requires people to be a little smart.

What if we all respected the first confinement? 6 weeks everybody at home, period.

The disease would be gone.

But no, oh no. People just can't be reasonable. So instead of 6 weeks, we've been dealing with this shit for almost two years.

And now you blame those who are unvaccinated, while vaccinated people go partying and spread the disease.

No, you should blame unreasonable people.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#909

Post by csee »

president wrote: post #676
csee wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's close to a silver bullet. Yes they don't completely stop transmission but who cares about that? All we should care about are severe cases and deaths. Add the new therapeutics on top and we actually do have the silver bullet. Vaccine + Paxlovid, if widely distributed enough, ends the pandemic, barring some new, more severe variant.

My point was not so much about the vaccine itself but the fact that almost all conversation and chatter about the pandemic is centered around the vaccine and having to get it in order to get anything done (job, travel, etc). People act as if there is literally no other way for life to function like it did pre-2020 without vaccines.

It's not surprising that all convo is around the vaccine, it's our strongest tool against it.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#910

Post by apexalpha »

shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid.

Your politicians HAVE prepared the country. There is a VERY BASIC strategy: get your bloody shot!

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