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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#831

Post by jyscao »

lillecarl wrote: post #6
TechBro8615 wrote: post #5

I’m confused. I thought vaccinated people can spread the virus. Why are they not locked down too?

Because the risk of transmission is understood to be significantly lower, and since unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate it's in the governments best interest to get people vaccinated, a way of accomplishing this could be making life inconvenient for the uncompliant.

> and since unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate

If you understand natural selection, then this assertion makes zero sense. Where in the genome do we see the accumulation of mutations in all covid variants seen so far? In their S-protein. Where does Omicron have 30+ mutations? In its S-protein.

What is the single protein that the mRNA vaccines code for??

Yes, if you reason from first principles, it is trivial to see that it is in fact the throngs of the vaccinated who are driving the evolution of SARS-CoV-2!

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#832

Post by dbankl »

jacquesm wrote: post #716
stormking wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but then the unvaccinated would only be risking their own lives. The most prominent argument for compulsory vaccination right now is that they're taking away scarce ICU beds.

It's a factor, but not the whole story. A lot of people are immunocompromised and for them just getting infected immediately raises the risks to unacceptable levels. We all owe the weaker people in our societies (from a health perspective) to take care of them, and if that requires us to get vaccinated to create a cordon of safety then so be it. That there are a bunch of egoists that would rather have us all fend for…

Many immunocompromised people have made personal choices that led to that situation. I do not see why people should be forced to take experimental non-sterilizing vaccines that don't even provide herd immunity, just to pretend that it saves this group.

If you take a forced vaccine and get a vaccine injury, no one will care about you. You'll end up in Hartz 4 and that's it. There won't be any HN thread in support of you, because it isn't mainstream.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#833

Post by Solvitieg »

lorenzfx wrote: post #677

I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.

It's wild how we can be vaccinated with two doses and still be considered an anti-vaxxer. Is this not doublespeak?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#834

Post by UnpossibleJim »

jasonhansel wrote: post #615
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality This is "A law that authorizes mandatory vaccination during an epidemic of a lethal disease". Now, I'm vaccinated and support vaccination (though, I'm on the fence about forced vaccination - though I do think it can be a fire-able offense, if you can't telecommute). However, does 1.6% reach the bar of a "sufficiently lethal" disease, especially now that our medical system ha…

Keep in mind: chickenpox is almost never lethal, and many school districts already require the chickenpox vaccine.

Again, I'm fine with it being a fire-able offense if you can't telecommute. That's a business policy and not a state mandate with punishment for noncompliance. I say this as someone who supports vaccines and is vaccinated.

As far as schooling goes, the infrastructure has been set up for tele-schooling already, should someone choose to not be vaccinated. There are inconveniences with choices, of course. I wore a mask and stayed at home to "stop the spread". It was an inconvenience, but it was a choice I made. The right choice, I think, but it wasn't a choice made at the end of a gun where I'd be put in a cage if I didn't comply.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#835

Post by daddylongstroke »

Scoundreller wrote: post #139
fabian2k wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

> Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. I don’t think this is too far from the survival rate of those admitted to intensive care in general. But I think the point is that COVID really increases your chances of being admitted there in the first place.

>But I think the point is that COVID really increases your chances of being admitted there in the first place.

If you're in a certain age range, and have several comorbidities.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#836

Post by frzj »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

The only argument that is viable against vaccination is that one might already have natural immunity. I get that some will try to get infected on purpose, but those will be the minority of the minority. Maybe there is also the argument that higher vaccination rates will not help. I heard that 90% UK's population has antibodies. People say that Spain has low rates now b/c they have a high vaccination rate, but they also had a high number of cases previously, and they were probably underreported. Personally, I gladly increased the average antibodies count of the population by getting vaccinated despite already having some immunity, but people are frightened, and we can't really change their minds. Force will only make them more stubborn.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#837

Post by daddylongstroke »

landemva wrote: post #808
stefan_ wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the ventilator fallacy? You know, it's march 2020, and everyone is rushing to make more of those damn ventilators? If you end up on a fucking ventilator in an ICU bed, the damage is long done . The goal is not to maximize the number of people we can have on ventilators. That is an absurd idea on the same level of the "natural immunity is better than the vaccine!" insanity we got in 2021.

"natural immunity is better than the vaccine" Has this been studied? I have natural anti-bodies and will participate in a study.

Only for the last 300 years or so. But ya know, at least the CDC has edited their website, so, poof, no such thing as natural immunity now. :-P Seriously, natural immunity is reactive to all 4 major viral proteins, vs vaccine's one. I recently saw a study from Sweden where vaccine effectiveness goes negative after 7-8 months! :-O

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#838

Post by nradov »

lee wrote: post #773
passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> "We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned." Can you explicitly mention what those treatments are? I'm genuinely curious.

Here are the latest COVID-19 treatment guidelines. They are very effective in preventing deaths when applied early and aggressively. Unfortunately many patients wait too long before seeking care, and many physicians still don't follow the protocol.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/about-the-gui...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#839

Post by nradov »

lmilcin wrote: post #790
passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. Because the real problem are going to be people that will be far too sick for any treatment to help them avoid hospitalisation. And overloaded hospitals will not benefit a lot from the fact there is some treatment available. The system will benefit much more from people not requiring hospitalisation in the first plac…

I encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated. However the monoclonal antibody treatments are given on an outpatient basis and are highly effective at preventing hospitalization.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#840

Post by JimTheMan »

lorenzfx wrote: post #677

I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.

The tech community here is pretty good around software and a limited amount of hardware. Once they venture into the world of biology, health etc they are only marginally more adept than the general public.

It's also predominately American, so you get a lot 'freedom at the expense of everyone else' ideas floating about.

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