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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#711

Post by ostenning »

csee wrote: post #225
president wrote: post #180

After 2 years of Covid, I find it extremely suspect that the covid vaccines are still touted so hard as the only way to manage or exit the pandemic despite it clearly not being the silver bullet it was originally promised to be. The fact that the media and government can't talk about anything other than vaccines tells me people are not really interested in solving for anything other than selling more vaccines.

It's close to a silver bullet. Yes they don't completely stop transmission but who cares about that? All we should care about are severe cases and deaths. Add the new therapeutics on top and we actually do have the silver bullet. Vaccine + Paxlovid, if widely distributed enough, ends the pandemic, barring some new, more severe variant.

A silver bullet that causes myocarditis (which I have been diagnosed with after 2 pfizer shots) and that requires boosting every 5-6 months.

Yep, Great silver bullet.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#712

Post by zapnuk »

drstewart wrote: post #686
kbelder wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't conflate 'anti-vax' with 'anti-vax-mandate'. The two positions have entirely different scientific and moral bases. I would think the second group is also much larger.

They've changed the definition to obfuscate this very important point. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer >Definition of anti-vaxxer >: a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination

Thats a lie.

It's been the definition since at least 2018 https://web.archive.org/web/20181125060933/https://www.merri...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#713

Post by [deleted] »

drstewart wrote: post #686
kbelder wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't conflate 'anti-vax' with 'anti-vax-mandate'. The two positions have entirely different scientific and moral bases. I would think the second group is also much larger.

They've changed the definition to obfuscate this very important point. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer >Definition of anti-vaxxer >: a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#714

Post by sasaf5 »

bruce343434 wrote: post #699
sasaf5 wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can get the same result from vaccines, without having to kill a few %.

So far I have gotten sicker from my vaccines than the coronavirus. I am NOT going to get boosters, fuck that. I'm not going to get revaccinated every once in a while. Sorry, humanity can deal with it. Vaccines don't work well enough, clearly. I did everything right. I got vaccinated. I isolated. I endured lockdown. I did not go out frivolously. I wore masks when I needed to go out anyway. What could I have done diffe…

The plural of anecdote is not data. I am sorry for your negative reaction, but in aggregate the vaccines are much better than catching covid. "This whole thing is not working" because of the 30% odd who prefer not to do their part and walk around as potential virus factories.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#715

Post by generalizations »

lorenzfx wrote: post #677

I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.

It's nice to see so many critical thinkers on here. Aren't "hackers" partly defined by their distrust of authority?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#716

Post by jacquesm »

stormking wrote: post #661
jacquesm wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really the problem though. See, no matter how many ICU beds you have, the people going to the ICU are about 40% or so likely to die from COVID and the remainder will recover but will take a very long time to do so and have a significant chance of having long term residual effects and/or complications. You don't really wish that kind of thing on anybody. So you try to avoid people going to the ICU in the fi…

Yeah, but then the unvaccinated would only be risking their own lives. The most prominent argument for compulsory vaccination right now is that they're taking away scarce ICU beds.

It's a factor, but not the whole story. A lot of people are immunocompromised and for them just getting infected immediately raises the risks to unacceptable levels. We all owe the weaker people in our societies (from a health perspective) to take care of them, and if that requires us to get vaccinated to create a cordon of safety then so be it.

That there are a bunch of egoists that would rather have us all fend for ourselves doesn't change that, and usually those are exactly the people demanding we take on their burdens when the situation is reversed. It's called a social contract for a reason: taxes, vaccination against communicable diseases where possible, compulsory education and so on, it's the flipside of the coin, you get a lot of rights, but you also have some (sometimes moral) obligations.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#717

Post by kbelder »

serial_dev wrote: post #271
bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

I'm in the same boat, except I had Covid in the spring. Got my second shot a month ago.

I didn't think I would get a large benefit from the vax, since I had covid, but did it mainly because of pressure (family, employment, government). But I think I draw the line here; I'm not going to take any boosters. Getting horribly sick for several days, running a high fever... that can damage you. It's not as bad as Covid, but my threat from Covid is also greatly diminished already.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#718

Post by EricE »

hncurious wrote: post #709

If we were a serious society, then the conversation would be about: immune vs non-immune high risk vs low risk infectious vs non-infectious But no, it's jabbed vs unjabbed. It doesn't make sense. Everyone in Germany who wants the vaccine has had it, and if you've had Covid, you're about as protected as the vaccinated. Furthermore, leaky vaccines don't prevent transmission, can't eliminate the virus (animal reservoirs…

>Germany of all places should be absolutely allergic to such rhetoric.

You would think! Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it and all that...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#719

Post by disabled »

hncurious wrote: post #709

If we were a serious society, then the conversation would be about: immune vs non-immune high risk vs low risk infectious vs non-infectious But no, it's jabbed vs unjabbed. It doesn't make sense. Everyone in Germany who wants the vaccine has had it, and if you've had Covid, you're about as protected as the vaccinated. Furthermore, leaky vaccines don't prevent transmission, can't eliminate the virus (animal reservoirs…

Your logic does not work. If people in a developed country would simply become vaccinated and boosted, then only the vaccinated or not condition would typically apply in mainstream society--and not the 3 other above conditions.

While all 4 are discriminatory, the first 3 are not inherently due to personal choices or preferences. People choose not to get vaccinated harming society as a whole--and make the other 3 above conditions come into play.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#720

Post by Krasnol »

fileeditview wrote: post #71
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

> So true and not mentioned enough by the media.

This is nonsense. The topic has been in the news almost from the beginning of the crisis. The government is being constantly criticised for that. Why do you people repeat this? It's a lie.

The fact that this topic is now being used by anti-vaxxers to cloud their anti-social behaviour and shift the growing anger of the vaccinated population away from them is ridiculous.

There are two issues here and stacking hospital beds and personal would not make anti-vaxxers better in any way.

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