Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 1001 posts

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#131

Post by _moof »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

I can't find any data to support your claim of a higher death rate in Denmark than all of 2020. The data I have show:

- Denmark currently experiencing a massive new wave of infections

- Previous large wave of infections was last winter, with rate peaking on Dec 18

- Daily deaths peaked one month later at about 8 per 1000 daily infections

- Current daily deaths, accounting for lag, is also about 8 per 1000 daily infections

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-m...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#132

Post by crooked-v »

peteradio wrote: post #40
Arnt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccinated people can spread the virus. However, if everyone in .de were vaccinated the R value would be somewhat below 1. It wouldn't be zero, because vaccinated people can spread the virus, but 1 is a critical threshold.

If you would have said 1 year ago, everyone will need this vaccine to reduce R below 1 you would have been laughed out of the room. What kind of shitty vaccine requires literally everyone to get it? Now good thing that wasn't the approach. Instead we said, "these vaccines kick ass" and walked that line back every day to buy compliance one person at a time. Good look. Good luck. Not sure how people can live with the c…

1 year ago, we thought that people would actually get vaccinated at a reasonable rate, instead of dragging their feet long enough for multiple more-infectious variants to appear.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#133

Post by caeril »

fabian2k wrote: post #99

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…

I bet on the order of 71% of Germans supported mandatory discrimination against undesirables in 1940 too, but here we are yet again, claiming that what a majority of the population supports is indicative of moral correctness.

If these measures don't work, like literally every authoritarian measure undertaken by governments so far, maybe Germany can put all the un-vaccinated into camps, too. We need to keep the unpure away from us.

Sure, the R0 value of the contagion amongst a 100% vaccinated population is still >1.0, and there are early indications that Omicron has a sufficiently mutated spike protein as to render the vaccine immune response ineffective, but why let epidemiological facts stand in the way of exercising power over one's inferiors?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#134

Post by joeman1000 »

blub wrote: post #90

Very thought-provoking this mistreatment of the unvaccinated. The process started with demonizing them to the point of being singled out and blamed for how the disease is impacting society. When the discrimination started, there were very few willing to speak for them. Particularly malicious was the expansion of the term anti-vaxxer typically used for a fringe minority which “rejects all vaccines for everyone” to all…

I’m not vaccinated, this is how I feel. I am not militant or political about it. My wife and whole family are vaccinated and I helped them to do it. As a young man, the risk of heart issues does indeed outweigh the risk of hospitalisation from the virus (as I’ve weighed it, anyhow). Victoria, Australia has hit 90% double vaccinated and case numbers have not changed here. To see this underwhelming effect in light of the anxiety the mandatory vaccination has caused, it is sad. I am lucky enough to be studying remotely, and so I just stay at home, I don’t go out other than to exercise in a park. I am not able to go anywhere with my wife right now (shopping, restaurants etc.), which is difficult, but it was my choice. If I am further forced to undergo vaccination I’m really not sure what I would do. I would want to leave Australia and live somewhere that I can have my own decisions. I don’t care if you think I’m selfish. Where did freedom of choice go? I’d like to move where it’s gone.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#135

Post by hadem »

hunterb123 wrote: post #123
wolverine876 wrote: post #119

I would be very happy if my government did the same. What a relief it would be! It's a public health measure, like public sanitation requirements, and driving a car that meets safety requirements. Unvaccinated people should be free to do whatever they want, short of risking infecting other people. Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins.

You might have a point if the vaccine fully prevented transmission or infection, but it doesn't.

My understanding is it's not going to prevent transmission but it can help in reducing transmissions, thus reducing infections.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#136

Post by threevox »

bijant wrote: post #64
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Big whoop

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#137

Post by [deleted] »

shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#138

Post by fileeditview »

fabian2k wrote: post #80
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

The argument always is that there are not enough beds for non-corona patients. More beds would certainly help.

It is nonsense to vaccinate young and very healthy people, especially kids. Their risk from COVID is minimal to non-existent.

Also the spread is not stopped by vaccinating. Vaccinated still spread the virus. If it is reduced is still unclear. There was a study in GB that showed the incidence numbers in vaccinated was just as high or higher than in unvaccinated. The sample sizes of vaccinated and unvaccinated were equal as they should be. Reports in Germany about these numbers forget to mention that vaccinated people are basically not tested.

> The vaccines work well and are safe.

They do not work well enough. First of all people still transmit the virus after only about 2 months after the vaccination. Then the protection goes down extremely between 2-6 months after the vaccination (that is why we need boosters all the time). It is still unclear if we continue to need boosters after the third shot.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#139

Post by Scoundreller »

fabian2k wrote: post #80
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

> Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die.

I don’t think this is too far from the survival rate of those admitted to intensive care in general.

But I think the point is that COVID really increases your chances of being admitted there in the first place.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#140

Post by chrishynes »

kareemm wrote: post #96
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

The other thing that doesn't show the whole story is using a data set starting in March when there was a quite low percent vaccinated but comparing totals of unvaxxed vs. vaxxed deaths over the whole period, when fully vaxxed in March was only a few percent.

It'd be much more interesting to see a straight comparison over Oct-Nov, say, when the vaccination rate was stable and get the unvaxxed vs 1 shot vs 2 shot vs 2 weeks after 2nd shot vs booster numbers.

Post reply on HN