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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#311

Post by tchalla »

bijant wrote: post #64
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

> they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future.

There is no obligation (or force) to get a booster shot. It is available and recommended but not forced. Some groups like older age and immune-compromised people are highly recommended.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#312

Post by [deleted] »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #229
fabian2k wrote: post #99

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…

>71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. From the article: >Germany, much like Austria, has one of the lowest vaccination rates in western Europe, with 68.4% and 65.6% of eligible adults vaccinated respectively, according to the ECDC. More Germans support mandatory vaccinations than are actually vaccinated? Seems like it should be the opposite. There are m…

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#313

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

tomohawk wrote: post #301
GVIrish wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden did worse than the other Scandinavian countries that enacted stricter Covid restrictions, including lockdowns. Sweden had roughly 5-7x as many deaths per capita as its immediate neighbors of Norway and Finland. Germany had less deaths per capita as well: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

What is this obsession with limiting comparison of Sweden with "other scandanavian countries"? Is there some sort of special risk factor that only applies to scandanavia? Does COVID know what people look like? Why not compare stats of major metro areas with other similar metro areas in the world?

For the same reason that their vaccination rates and wealth and gini coefficients and all types of other metrics closely resemble each other more than some random country like Ethiopia or Peru.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#314

Post by notahacker »

tomohawk wrote: post #301
GVIrish wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden did worse than the other Scandinavian countries that enacted stricter Covid restrictions, including lockdowns. Sweden had roughly 5-7x as many deaths per capita as its immediate neighbors of Norway and Finland. Germany had less deaths per capita as well: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

What is this obsession with limiting comparison of Sweden with "other scandanavian countries"? Is there some sort of special risk factor that only applies to scandanavia? Does COVID know what people look like? Why not compare stats of major metro areas with other similar metro areas in the world?

Because they have similar risk factors, which are much, much lower than the other countries people are noting Sweden appeared to have fared better than. The UK, which imported a lot more cases, has more crowded commuter trains and bars and probably a less sensible population tried the Swedish strategy for a few weeks, but gave up because the deaths were mounting.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#315

Post by Aldipower »

ceesharp wrote: post #214
joeman1000 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not vaccinated, this is how I feel. I am not militant or political about it. My wife and whole family are vaccinated and I helped them to do it. As a young man, the risk of heart issues does indeed outweigh the risk of hospitalisation from the virus (as I’ve weighed it, anyhow). Victoria, Australia has hit 90% double vaccinated and case numbers have not changed here. To see this underwhelming effect in light of t…

"Das Recht, mit der Faust um sich zu schlagen, hört auf, wo die Nase des Mitmenschen anfängt."

This counts for everybody. Being forced to be vaxxed with mRNA is probably also very "fisty" for some people.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#316

Post by stefan_ »

nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Is this the ventilator fallacy? You know, it's march 2020, and everyone is rushing to make more of those damn ventilators?

If you end up on a fucking ventilator in an ICU bed, the damage is long done. The goal is not to maximize the number of people we can have on ventilators. That is an absurd idea on the same level of the "natural immunity is better than the vaccine!" insanity we got in 2021.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#317

Post by jseban »

GVIrish wrote: post #244
lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Sweden did worse than the other Scandinavian countries that enacted stricter Covid restrictions, including lockdowns. Sweden had roughly 5-7x as many deaths per capita as its immediate neighbors of Norway and Finland. Germany had less deaths per capita as well: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

And what is expected deaths per capita? That relative measure is irrelevant unless you compare it to some kind of normal death rate in the past. Are you expecting deaths per capita to drastically drop and be kept much lower from 2020 and forward, compared to the past?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#318

Post by cheeseomlit »

wolverine876 wrote: post #119

I would be very happy if my government did the same. What a relief it would be! It's a public health measure, like public sanitation requirements, and driving a car that meets safety requirements. Unvaccinated people should be free to do whatever they want, short of risking infecting other people. Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins.

>Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins.

The governments freedom ends where my epidermis begins.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#319

Post by howinteresting »

hogFeast wrote: post #179
howinteresting wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortality isn't the only negative outcome.

And lockdowns can cause mortality too. In England, the waiting list for operations (these are procedures that a doctor has determined are required medically, some are elective but England doesn't do many electives because of cost) is expected to hit 12m in a few years...the total adult population in England is 56m. Ignoring the economic turmoil that they cause, ignoring the social turmoil. There are no very good choi…

I agree that the NHS is fucked, but that's because of:

* COVID itself

* its funding and delivery model making it vulnerable to politicians acting in bad faith

far more than restrictions on gatherings.

By the way, an "elective" surgery is one that can be scheduled in advance. Most elective surgeries are not optional. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#320

Post by felistoria »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #253
krater23 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means, vaccination doesn't works. Sounds like the antivaccers are right(?) When you want to see it like this, we will never know enough to do anything. The only thing we can do with things that we can't change is to accept it. It's time to do...

No, vaccinations prevent you from getting sick. It’s the choice between a mild illness and potentially being admitted into the hospital. What we’re starting to see is potential for further variants to evade antibodies, reproduce inside you and thus you spread it. Your immune system is still able to fight the virus easier because the vaccine has trained your immune system to look out for contagions like this virus but…

Fully vaccinated people still get hospitalized and some times die. If you are old or have comorbidity, even the vaccine won't save you. We need to get off this vaccine obsession and start working on early treatments.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7...

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