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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#261

Post by kgwgk »

noahtallen wrote: post #183
kareemm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

> We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020 Another really, really important piece of context is how human behavior has changed. In 2020, many people were very cautious about covid. For example, in liberal US cities like Seattle and Portland, many indoor activities were restricted pretty hard until 2021. People didn’t dine out in person, or didn’t at…

> People didn’t dine out in person

I wonder how did they dine out :-)

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#262

Post by arrrg »

nzk wrote: post #243
arrrg wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No country in the world has the capacity to take care of more than “a couple thousand” ICU patients (well, it’s more like a couple of ten thousand ICU patients for the best equipped and richest large countries in the world, like Germany). Simply because “a couple thousand” is all that’s needed during ordinary times. Yeah, there are issues with staffing and inadequate payment of the staff, sure, and those problems are…

In three months, the booster efficiency might start waning again, we don't know that yet. These vaccines so far aren't looking like they are the solution to the pandemic either, better vaccines or better treatment might be. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense to get vaccinated if you want to help with the situation, but I do find the way our politicians deflect blame and openly insult a not so small segment of the p…

Please source the 4,000 number properly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29422105

As I point out in my other comment, you cannot interpret that number in any to imply as though we ever actually had those 4,000 beds.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#263

Post by jeffbee »

musicale wrote: post #17

What are the major root causes for the surge in Germany? Low humidity/temperature? New variants? Something else? IIRC last winter in the US at least, health officials and the media were quick to blame irresponsible citizens and social gatherings – but the major root cause seemed to be a new, more transmissible (delta) variant.

Would love to know the effect if any of being surrounded by countries with lower vaccination rates. Germany may have 70% vaccinated but how much does it help them when Poland has only 50%? Is there enough mobility between Poland and Germany to make it matter?

Of concern to a Californian who is surrounded by other states with lower vaccination rates. Even internally in California there is a steep gradient between the coastal counties with 80-90% and the inland counties as low as 50%.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#264

Post by est31 »

locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

Germany had elections at the end of September, and I feel that this is the main reason for the catastrophy that is unfolding now. It has prevented the ruling parties from imposing stricter vaccination requirements more early on. They could have easily required everyone to be vaccinated by November first, and this current situation would have been spared. Now the government still has to do it, but they need to rush it, and they impose unrealistic goals like 30 million vaccinations until christmas.

After Macron's speech in July to put vaccination requirements for the medical industry, there was a major surge to the vaccination centers. Meanwhile Germany was in pre election mood.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-vaccination-d...

You can see the effect of Macon's speech clearly on this graph: it led to a major surge in per-day vaccinations in mid July 2021 while Germany stayed in steep decline, and the "corona is over" mentality spread. Germany has reduced its distance to France in the last few weeks, but France still has more vaccinations than us, and it's far away from european leaders like Portugal.

At the start of covid, everyone in europe admired Germany for its good covid response. They flew ICU patients from Italy to Germany as the italian hospitals were way beyond their capacity. Now we might have to fly Germans the other way.

Yes, you can say that there has barely been public support for vaccination requirements up until the start of the current wave. And indeed it's been quite unpopular in the autumn. But if politicians had been more courageously trying to sell vaccination requirements, maybe it'd have worked out.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#265

Post by timdaub »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

Denmark has 76,4% completely vaccinated.

Source, the data on https://www.zeit.de

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#266

Post by mythrwy »

GVIrish wrote: post #244
lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Sweden did worse than the other Scandinavian countries that enacted stricter Covid restrictions, including lockdowns. Sweden had roughly 5-7x as many deaths per capita as its immediate neighbors of Norway and Finland. Germany had less deaths per capita as well: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I'll be curious to know what these numbers are in 5 years.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#267

Post by discreteevent »

krater23 wrote: post #189
fabian2k wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

You forget one, the people that are dying have taken the risk for ther own and didn't want to get vaccinated. It's ok when they die, it's their decision that's gone wrong. Other people didn't got vaccinated and will never get covid anywhere. This is a decision that not the government has to make for the people.

Those people don't refuse to go to hospital and they don't refuse the ICU bed.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#268

Post by timdaub »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #250
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

What people aren't typically "mathing" right is that even if you have 90% vaccinated, that's still potentially hundreds of thousands (millions in bigger countries) of un-vaccinated people who are prone to getting seriously sick. The numbers here in Ontario are clear. Case rates among the unvaccinated are far higher, and ICU admissions are far far far higher. I never fell for any line that said vaccination would just…

Denmark has 76,4% vaccinated: check on https://www.zeit.de/index

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#269

Post by rytcio »

spookthesunset wrote: post #187
fsh wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a bizarre take. If the ICUs are filling up, the solution should be to prevent people from getting sick, not to make the ICUs bigger. There are undoubtedly many problems in the German healthcare system, but the current surge is clearly due to the very large number of unvaccinated people.

the two weeks were to build up health care capacity. We erected field hospitals to manage the sick and then closed them because they weren’t being used. If this truly is an energy and hospitals truly are at risk, find a way to build more capacity even if it is temporary. Blaming the public for the failure to do this is wrong. And if you aren’t building this capacity… maybe this really isn’t an emergency?

But if we do that then the media doesn't have a scare tactic

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#270

Post by timdaub »

bocytron wrote: post #93
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

Sources please?

the 90% vaccination claims of the op are false.
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