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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#91

Post by vletal »

shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

You feel like Germany is lacking basic strategy?

I'm Czech and we wish here we would be as prepared and forward thinking as your representatives are. If it was not for one of the highest rate of ICU beds per capita in the world and all the high quality nurses and doctors we export to Germany, our health care would have already crumbled.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#92

Post by throwaway224466 »

beanjuice wrote: post #61
dang wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments are correctly getting flagged because you're taking the thread further into generic ideological flamewar. That's off topic here and clearly against the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . If you'd please review them and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Edit: actually, it looks like you've been using this account primarily for ideological battle, a…

Thank you for continuing to do such an excellent job.

...of blatant censorship sitting in his ivory tower? smdh

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#93

Post by bocytron »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

Sources please?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#94

Post by generalizations »

lillecarl wrote: post #6
TechBro8615 wrote: post #5

I’m confused. I thought vaccinated people can spread the virus. Why are they not locked down too?

Because the risk of transmission is understood to be significantly lower, and since unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate it's in the governments best interest to get people vaccinated, a way of accomplishing this could be making life inconvenient for the uncompliant.

> since unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate

We might get more mutations from unvaccinated people, but since the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission we'll get much more virulent mutations from the vaccinated people.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#95

Post by sleepysysadmin »

nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

>What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed.

So I'm kind of surprised to see this. I was under the impression Germany was the opposite.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/hospital-beds

Germany is #2 out of those reporting. Crushing Canada by like 300%.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/medical-doctors

Germany #1 for doctors, beating Canada by 100%

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/nurses

Germany #2 for nurses, beating Canada by ~75%

I kind of step back, how terrible is Canada doing?

>The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then.

Oh ya big time. I can't remember a time when nurses/psws/doctors weren't in huge demand here in Canada.

Before covid: https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/07/toronto-hospital-fraud/

During covid pre-vax: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-hospital-lays-off-97-regi...

Antivaxxers fired: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/11/28/were-on-the-brin...

You can't be on one side in huge demand for nurses but also be firing them willy nilly.

Firing them for not getting the vaccine isn't true at all. They've been reducing nurses and such for long before.

>Our government is in full CYA mode, and doing everything they can to blame a scapegoat for problems they themselves have willingly created over decades. It's despicable, and nobody should support it.

I propose that Canada and Germany probably have the same problem. That we are on the same page.

I am curious what you think is that problem?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#96

Post by kareemm »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths?

Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters.

I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]:

- Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots

- Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots

Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the whole story - breaking them down by vaxxed/1shot/2shot will help unpack "who to blame".

In fact, you can dig deeper. My province doesn't release the numbers but from what I can tell the 2-shot people who die are generally older and/or infirm. So I believe the 2shot numbers are being thrown off by an atypical population... which means the general population has less to fear from covid if they're double vaxxed. My co-founder informed this is an example of "Simpson's Paradox"[2].

What kind of vaxxed/unvaxxed breakdown are you seeing in Denmark?

1 - https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/204d6ed723244dfbb76...

2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#97

Post by thedrbrian »

tinus_hn wrote: post #26
yladiz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Imagine a world in which the vaccine does not exist. What would you do then? That is the alternative.

Use my immune system, like people did for millions of years. Unfortunately everyone can’t but the vast majority will be fine after having covid and will have built up immunity.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#98

Post by throwntoday »

_moof wrote: post #79
fileeditview wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

I might be working from old info here but my understanding is that vaccination reduces the ICU burden. Assuming that's still good info, is it totally unreasonable to blame the unvaccinated for ICU overload?

Yes because no effort was made to increase ICU capacity which was continues to be the biggest issue

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#99

Post by fabian2k »

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today.

Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the place, when people requiring acute care get long delays until they find a free intensive care bed somewhere, you can't ignore this any longer.

Requiring vaccinations for non-essential activities with many people is something we should have done much earlier, it's long overdue. It's the least restrictive measure that has a good chance of doing both, reducing the spread and encouraging more people to get vaccinated.

The failure to organize the vaccine boosters is another big issue. It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective, the delays here cause increased load in intensive care and were to some degree avoidable.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#100

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

emsy wrote: post #74
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"[...] we totally hollowed out our health care" Weird move for one of the richest countries in the world, no?

Privatization of infrastructure in Germany has always led to a, at least perceived, decline in quality. This has been true for postal service, railway, telcos and now health care.

Except he was talking about the Netherlands.
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