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Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

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Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#161
One of the most powerful NIMBY arguments against more density is traffic. And unfortunately they're right. We see it again and again in the cities and suburbs that grew since the car became mainstream. The roads can only take so much volume before the residents become really unhappy. And so of course they don't want more density, they're tired of waiting on red lights, looking for parking, and all the other problems of a car dependent society that has too many cars.

Buses have failed for a variety of reasons. Rail and BRT (bus with dedicated lane) are good and should be greatly expanded, but they only help with connecting major areas. We need to stop looking at Asian mega cities as an example. It just won't work here. Those super dense cities are designed for walking + public transit. The "last mile" problem in those cities are solved by walking because they're super dense enough that you can get to public transit easily by walking less than a mile. And also don't look at NYC or any old east coast city as an example. Those were designed before the car. Most people in the US live in places that were designed for the car.

Rail + BRT along major routes is part of the solution. But in the past, it hasn't worked well because of the "last mile" issue, which is more like the "last few miles" issue in the typical American suburban design. If someone has to still have a car to drive the few miles from their home to the park-and-ride, that doesn't do anything to fix the local road congestion issue. When they get on the train, it helps with freeway traffic, but does nothing for the local traffic. And the "last few miles" is too far to walk. And again, buses/shuttles have failed to fix this for a lot of reasons.

When ride-share was introduced, some thought that this was the solution. If someone depends on ride-share to get to places, that certainly helps reduce parking requirements. But, the traffic on the roads doesn't change, and may even increase due to idling ride-share cars waiting for rides. Uber Pool tries to help with this, but it's just not enough.

With the rise of electric micromobility (e-scooters and e-bikes), we finally have something that can fix this "last few miles" issue. But it will require a big step from the government and society as well. We have to be willing to sacrifice a lane in all the local roads. The current bike lanes are simply not extensive enough, not wide enough, and not safe enough. The only way to achieve true effectiveness for e-micromobility is to dedicate an entire lane of roads to them. It's a radical idea that would get a lot of opposition. People already upset with traffic don't want to lose a lane to make it worse. That can only be countered with a critical mass of people who own an e-microbility solution (e-scooter or e-bike).

Is it ever going to happen? Maybe if there's a city brave enough to try it and show it can work. But true support and infrastructure for e-bikes and e-scooters is the only way to get real density in the typical suburban sprawl layout without a disastrous increase in traffic and parking shortage.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens in LA is that an extra apt or two will be built in the backyard, which can be rented for a few thousand a month.

Is the ROI on that worth it? Again, I think we're looking at $200k in construction costs for $2,500/month in rental income. Also, one other thing I forgot is that this construction will probably increase your property taxes, further pushing out a positive ROI.

Quite a few people have done it already, when allowed. Prop 13?

I’m guessing it does over the long run, but haven’t tried it myself.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#163
post #50

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

It's even worse than that. Because LA is so spread out, merely living in apartment buildings doesn't solve the problem: the apartment-dwellers still need cars to live in LA. When you need 1-3 parking spots for every apartment, the economic efficiency of apartment buildings drops precipitously. With rose-colored glasses, I can see a path forward; building free-standing parking garages that will eventually be demolishe…

Parking garages cost over $500k per space to build. Probably more in California. No one is building one with as part of a short term plan with the intent to tear it down in less than 30-40+ years.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#164

What is the end solution to this housing crisis? The solutions will all hurt existing homeowners or multi-homeowners and are not likely to be implemented. The duplex in a single family lot is not going to move the needle on this crisis much, as building 2 houses on a existing lot will require a teardown of the original structure, then a buildup of the new duplex, all very costly. It will run at least $500K+ and I don…

A much better alternative for #1: simply improve tenant protections so much that renting out a property becomes a bad investment (to risky).

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#165

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

My understanding is you are already allowed to build an ADU (additional dwelling unit) due to state laws.

What I've seen in my city (LA adjacent) is the city can find really creative ways of making adding an ADU very expensive. On my block the same contractor built 2 different ~500 sq ft units on two different lots. They both were a garage tear down replaced by a 1 bedroom unit above a garage.

The first unit was done right after the law change allowing ADUs, and cost ~140k. The second, started 18 months later was ~270k and the owner had to pay for things like repaving the ally and upgrading the sewers.

So even the small steps are being impeded.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#166
post #93
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet So what if you want to have a family and need to move to a bigger place ? Is it not a problem then ?

Not to the same extent because the rise in your own home's value mirrors the rise in value of the bigger place.

I've seen this argument in many places yet I'm not sure the math holds up.

For example a house that costs 1000$ goes up in value by 20% = 1200$. Over the same period a 2000$ bigger house goes up by the same amount = 2400$. If you wanted to buy the bigger house before the increase you would have loaned 1000$, but now since the increase you'll have to pay 1200$.

Is there a catch I'm missing somewhere or what ?

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well obviously, the people that want low density housing. It's still the American dream to have a house with a yard and fence.

I grew up in such a house and honestly now if you gave me the choice of that vs living in a nice condo in Tokyo, Bangkok or Singapore it wouldn't even be close.

Same, I live in a small house by American standards and would willingly live in 1/4 the space if it meant I could easily move to somewhere like Tokyo.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#168

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

The thing I don't get is why many SFH owners don't see the benefit of upzoning their lot: Overnight, their house is much more valuable because if they choose to, they can sell to a developer who can make MORE money by building more homes. And if they choose to keep their house as is, nobody is going to force them. In the end, it boils down to cars, though. Many people see the free parking space in front of their hous…

> Make cars optional, and everything else falls into place.

You’re forgetting all the other infrastructure that a person living in a house/apartment/duplex needs. Looking at a zoning map makes it easy to see why housing is so expensive to purchase, but in addition to roads how much additional water, electricity, internet, emergency services, whatever else, infrastructure would be required to service intensification? Does the local council have the competency and budget to manage that? How motivated do you think they’d be to challenge a status quo that prevents them from having to address those issues?

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's building more. But the question is what kind of more. Is artificially changing the density of every Single Family Home neighborhood going to create a more that depresses pricing? No. Because the housing will not all be built magically overnight. Units will come onto the market after: 1) The developer buys. 2) Tears down the SFH. 3) Builds a new multiplex. The capex in each of these steps guarantees tha…

> But in reality pricing is also dictated by: location, style, build quality, schools, and a hundred other factors. All of those factors though are considered with respect to supply. If there are 11 homes and 10 buyers, then by necessity the prices for those homes must come down despite how good those homes are. > This can make housing more dense and it can gradually lead to more units on the market. Potentially you…

that’s a very good point about pricing happening at the margin, but consider that housing isn’t nearly as fungible as laundry detergent, so there is still a fair bit of pricing friction in housing. that’s because the marginal pricing mechanism occurs at the sub-segment of truly comparable properties (that normalized measures like $/ft^2 can’t capture) not all properties in a locality.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#170
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse than that. Because LA is so spread out, merely living in apartment buildings doesn't solve the problem: the apartment-dwellers still need cars to live in LA. When you need 1-3 parking spots for every apartment, the economic efficiency of apartment buildings drops precipitously. With rose-colored glasses, I can see a path forward; building free-standing parking garages that will eventually be demolishe…

Dream: Build light rail and cluster high density mixed-use housing and commercial around the stops. Reality: LA runs out of water as climate change intensifies in the Rockies.

LA will never run out of water; it's not the major water user in CA state and it has a huge body of potentially drinkable water next to it and the cash to use it.
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