Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods • Hacker News Board

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#121

Post by ethanbond » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #35

ethanbond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That system is called feudalism! Just the lords don’t even have to take care of security anymore - peasants also pay for that.

> system is called feudalism Peasants didn't vote for their lords. Somehow California's poor and renters have been convinced that building less housing is in their interests. (For example, see [1].) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419007

Landlords (look at the word!) are not elected. Building more loosens their grip, and yes it’s counterproductive to go against that, but also land is de facto finite.

Today’s landlords are descended from a long line of landlords, lords, warlords, and eventually just assholes who said, “get off this piece of earth or I will murder you, it’s mine now.”

Of course this lineage is no longer exclusively hereditary, but it often is in practice and the economic externalities and ethical considerations are minimally different.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#122

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #8

seibelj wrote: post #2

I live in Jamaica Plain, a neighborhood of Boston, Massachusetts. Nearly every single home is multi-family, and the single families that do exist are usually $2 million and up. Take a stroll down one of our streets https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3130357,-71.1188873,3a,75y,1... It is dense, walkable, and extremely beautiful. There is no reason every neighborhood with duplexes has to look like cookie cutter sprawl tha…

Boston was incorporated two hundred years before Los Angeles. Of course it is going to have more beautiful, old houses. Of course it is going to have more walkable neighborhoods. But what I'm more interested in is this: > Nearly every single home is multi-family, and the single families that do exist are usually $2 million and up. SFH are already 1 million and up in LA, really in SD, LA, SF, Seattle, and Vancouver. I…

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Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#123

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #107

kodah wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of apartments I've seen are for rent, not for purchase. So, at the least I'm putting emphasis on the idea that they need to be apartments for sale .

They just don't call them apartments, they call them condos. But they're essentially apartments for sale, and I see them all the time.

I see them all the time too, outside of California where they can build housing. See Toronto or even Vancouver.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#124

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #60

_fat_santa wrote: post #5

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

> This is a small step in the right direction but California has really dug themselves into a hole here. California needs whole apartment blocks, not just duplexes, but apartments is something that is likely to never happen because of the above issue where no one will vote against their self interest Incremental upzoning is what will get us there. So changing single family zoning to duplex zoning like what this does,…

Incremental upzoning is what will get us there.

This. It's been relatively successful (in terms of units built) in Northern VA. All along the Metro rail through Arlington and Fairfax Counties, we've changed zoning to allow dense multi-use development. Courthouse, Clarendon, and Ballston in Arlington were heavily redeveloped in the 90s and 00s. And Reston and Herndon's Transit Oriented Development Zones have been underway for 5-10 years and will continue for another decade.

Definitely not a cure-all, but a step in the right direction. At least there's office, retail, dining, and residential all on the same plot, which beats the previous massive parking lots and mid-rise office space.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#125

Post by RandallBrown » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #113

Huh, nice to see Los Angeles, a city of some 4 million people catching up with... uh, Bend, Oregon, which recently passed its city code changes to allow up to fourplexes thanks to HB2001. Bend recently hit 100,000 people! And you wonder why California has a housing crisis.

Doesn't Bend also have a housing crisis?

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#126

Post by mrep » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

jperras wrote: post #106

mrep wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We call them three-flats here in Chicago.

I had no idea that they were common enough in Chicago to have a colloquial name! That's awesome.

They are literally everywhere in Chicago. I live in one myself.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#127

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #5

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

[deleted]

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#128

Post by jiveturkey » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #102

_fat_santa wrote: post #5

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

After living in Asia for the last several years where cities combine high density housing and good mass transit with door to door access to great shopping centers the US just looks comically dysfunctional to me. Who wants to spend hours every day stuck in traffic and looking for parking and then pay outrageous rents for the privilege?

Well obviously, the people that want low density housing. It's still the American dream to have a house with a yard and fence.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#129

Post by wayoutthere » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #5

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

> I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest.

This is generally referred to as NIMBYism. And yeah, it’s a problem, but particularly in California where property values have skyrocketed to the point homeowners can’t afford to give up their nest egg because then they’d have nowhere to live.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#130

Post by subsubzero » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

What is the end solution to this housing crisis? The solutions will all hurt existing homeowners or multi-homeowners and are not likely to be implemented. The duplex in a single family lot is not going to move the needle on this crisis much, as building 2 houses on a existing lot will require a teardown of the original structure, then a buildup of the new duplex, all very costly. It will run at least $500K+ and I don't see many middle class owners using this route, also construction workers are scarce in the state due to high housing costs.

What would truly fix things right away:

#1. Prohibit Companies/Entities/hedgefunds from buying houses and renting them, ala zillow, blackrock etc.

#2. Repeal CA prop. 13, all housing should be taxed at current market value. (exclusions for older retirees and the disabled)

#3. Homeowners that wish to own a second property should be taxed at a very high rate.

#4. Mandate real estate commissions to be halved, currently its 6%(3% buyer, 3% seller) it should be closer to 3% total, this would allow greater mobility and encourage more buying and selling of houses.

#5. Rezone unused commercial(3 years unused) to residential to allow for more units to be built.

None of these solutions above would change the makeup of a neighborhood by introducing high density housing which some owners don't want, and could easily be implemented by a few laws being crafted and passed. I bet 10-15% of the housing market would free up right away and prices would come down 20-30% within a year or two.

But the root of the problem is just the people who are intentionally moving to southern California due to the mild climate. They know how crowded and dry[lack of water](and also expensive) it is but move here anyways contributing to the congestion. They don't want to move to other areas even when there are jobs there, and this issue will always be there.