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Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

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Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#121

Post by 908B64B197 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #48
999900000999 wrote: post #34

LinkedIn is pretty good, however I really do hate the photos. The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West, is because it opens you up to discrimination. My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I also very much hate how people keep trying to turn it into Facebook. Stop it. Get your validation somewhere else. Now with that said, I've found almost all of my recent jobs via Lin…

>The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West In the US, UK etc. yes, but in Germany and DACH region, employers still expect a photo in the traditional resume, especially for non-tech/skilled positions or in more traditional companies (Audi, BMW, etc.). Heard it's the same in southern Europe. Still irks me that they haven't outlawed this yet. But I don't think things would improve much if they did thou…

France tried the complete opposite (making resumes completely anonymous) and considered making that the law everywhere. When they tried it, it had the opposite effect of what they expected (hires became less diverse).

https://www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/discrimination-h...

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#122

Post by ingvul »

999900000999 wrote: post #42
jstx1 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the photos, LinkedIn is a way to discover jobs/people/companies. You aren't submitting your photo when applying for a job.

When recruiters search for candidates they definitely see photos. Photos which should have absolutely nothing to with finding a job

Everything matters. Given two more or less skilled candidates, I guess if one looks like Brad Pitt, well, that's something no? Or if someone has a really nice voice, that has to count for something. Perhaps the company is thinking in terms "oh, candidate 2 has a magnificent voice! If we ever present tech conferences, he will do great!"

This is not a world where "only your brain" matters. If you have brain and a decent surface (i.e., face, body, voice, manners) then you'll beat the ones who "only" have brain.

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#123

Post by burnished »

CountDrewku wrote: post #97
burnished wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't really played devils advocate, you've just suggested a completely straightforward example that demonstrates why we'd rather not have the pictures as part of the hiring process.

Are you suggesting the employer never sees your face? This response makes no sense. They will see you at some point in the process regardless of whether it's on linkedin or in person at the interview. Physical appearance is part of life, it's no more discriminatory than refusing to hire stupid or mentally deficient people.

I'm suggesting that if our goal is to hire people based on their merits we should limit the extent that well understood bias influences the process.

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#124

Post by throwaway4220 »

CountDrewku wrote: post #95
999900000999 wrote: post #34

LinkedIn is pretty good, however I really do hate the photos. The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West, is because it opens you up to discrimination. My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I also very much hate how people keep trying to turn it into Facebook. Stop it. Get your validation somewhere else. Now with that said, I've found almost all of my recent jobs via Lin…

>My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I don't necessarily agree. There are jobs where appearance is important, especially customer facing ones. And I'm sure I'll catch flak for this but if you're obese, slovenly, or unhealthy looking that kinda has to factor in. I would certainly question how well you could handle a job if you can't even handle your personal life. Discrimination sucks b…

Obesity and income are related. Curly hair can be considered unkempt.

Discrimination (hopefully) is a small percentage of most of our lives, but it is real. Black hands holding a product in a craigslist ad gets fewer hits. If you're a racist and buy a bicycle, get there and the guy is black, you'd probably still buy it, because you're already there

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#125

Post by 908B64B197 »

tester34 wrote: post #67
999900000999 wrote: post #34

LinkedIn is pretty good, however I really do hate the photos. The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West, is because it opens you up to discrimination. My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I also very much hate how people keep trying to turn it into Facebook. Stop it. Get your validation somewhere else. Now with that said, I've found almost all of my recent jobs via Lin…

I will play devil for lulz: >My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty but actually why? you know - if you have two equally skilled people... and one of them has tattoos on 90% of his/her body and your company works for banking industry, then is it pros or con?

> you know - if you have two equally skilled people... and one of them has tattoos on 90% of his/her body and your company works for banking industry, then is it pros or con?

It's a huge pro.

"Wow, they hired him despite the stigma around his looks in our hugely conservative business, he's that good."

Same thing with hiring a non-minority candidate from a school that's known to do a lot of affirmative action, you know he's there for the right reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#126

Post by [deleted] »

evilbob93 wrote: post #118
digitalsushi wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if your cell phone ends up in their list, woo-ee they will call you at 11pm on a Sunday if it means you're more likely to pick up. It would have panicked me to get a call at 11pm at one point in my life, but thanks to recruiters I just never answer the phone at all. Voicemail is my butler.

In the US, there are laws against calling after 9:00. And like you, I don't answer calls from unknown numbers any more, whether or not my phone identifies it as likely scam.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#127

Post by Frazmatazz »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #48
999900000999 wrote: post #34

LinkedIn is pretty good, however I really do hate the photos. The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West, is because it opens you up to discrimination. My physical appearance should have nothing to do with my hireabilty I also very much hate how people keep trying to turn it into Facebook. Stop it. Get your validation somewhere else. Now with that said, I've found almost all of my recent jobs via Lin…

>The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West In the US, UK etc. yes, but in Germany and DACH region, employers still expect a photo in the traditional resume, especially for non-tech/skilled positions or in more traditional companies (Audi, BMW, etc.). Heard it's the same in southern Europe. Still irks me that they haven't outlawed this yet. But I don't think things would improve much if they did thou…

"if an employer wants to not hire you because of your race/gender/nationality etc, it can do it anyway in a later stage"

First, you're increasing the probability of discrimination by making it possible earlier on. The number of people that could exclude you goes up; e.g. the initial, possibly external, recruiter (who is screening hundreds of candidates) who would never otherwise have seen your face, can now discriminate on appearance.

Secondly, people are less discriminatory to people they've actually met and gotten to know somewhat. A picture of an anonymous person, with very little other information to go off of, may affect someone's judgement quite strongly; whereas, when you actually meet and talk with someone, have a lot of other information about them, and they are no longer anonymous, physical appearance will have less influence.

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#128

Post by Frazmatazz »

908B64B197 wrote: post #121
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The main reason we don't have photos on resumes in the West In the US, UK etc. yes, but in Germany and DACH region, employers still expect a photo in the traditional resume, especially for non-tech/skilled positions or in more traditional companies (Audi, BMW, etc.). Heard it's the same in southern Europe. Still irks me that they haven't outlawed this yet. But I don't think things would improve much if they did thou…

France tried the complete opposite (making resumes completely anonymous) and considered making that the law everywhere. When they tried it, it had the opposite effect of what they expected (hires became less diverse). https://www.povertyactionlab.org/evaluation/discrimination-h...

"They also found that participating firms attached less importance to interrupted work histories or other negative signals for minority candidates. This suggests that anonymizing resumes may have made it more difficult for employers that were originally more favorable to minority candidates, to identify these candidates, and to assess their application in light of the adverse employment conditions many of them face."

That makes sense. It's sort of like how I wouldn't expect someone from Kentucky to have the same internship opportunities as someone from the bay area, but if I cant see their location then all I have to go off of is the listed experience.

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#129

Post by cvhashim »

oojuliuso wrote: post #98
cvhashim wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a business opportunity ;)

I fear any upstart LinkedIn competitor sans social would just become another LinkedIn over time. Just don’t see the incentives for entering the professional networking space.

Was thinking more of something like an extension that hides certain activities or filters it out.

Re: Ask HN: Are Indeed, LinkedIn the go-to places for exploring new jobs?

#130

Post by elias94 »

I consider LinkedIn full of crap and marketing stuff. I hate the newsfeed and all the fake stuff that people post there. Messages are bloated with random recruiters, search is a pain and the algorithm is totally unclear.

Indeed or similar are so basic that if you're lucky you will get an email reply from the company. Is less noisy than LinkedIn.

I hope one day the process will be simple and without recruiters in the middle. Nothing against them, but are mostly 0 technical and you have to take calls where they read you a company presentation but they don't know nothing really about the company and nothing about you. So what is their utility?

I prefer to speak directly with the company. And I don't like unwanted calls, and I don't like being ghosted (especially if I invested more than 20 mins on your company).

I read this article few days ago, 100% correct https://batsov.com/articles/2021/11/03/a-note-about-recruite...

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