Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

bmj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 298 posts

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#101

Post by zuminator »

cryptodan wrote: post #65
anonporridge wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will eventually become just another element in economic selection. The wealthy and the high income earners will start avoiding buildings, businesses, and organizations that won't or can't sufficiently upgrade to be considered safe. Their money will flow and support the healthy/safe alternatives. Those that are left behind will be the dregs that the poor and desperate use and will gradually fall into disrepair unti…

It won't change my habits. I'm not going to ask every business owner to provide their facilities maintenance info before I go to a place of business. If I get sick I get sick. It may or may not be the fault of the business.

In the town where I live, office and apartment buildings are assigned letter codes based upon energy efficiency, which are then publicly displayed. It's not unfeasible to imagine that something like that could be done for the health and safety profile of buildings. Even if many people chose to ignore such information, I think enough would feel hesitant to enter a building with an "F" grade that it would end up having a positive effect overall.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#102

Post by mlyle »

aspaceman wrote: post #95
doubled112 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kid's school doesn't have windows that open. It's too new for that.

Is that really a newer thing? My ancient high school had 45-degree windows (for theft and suicide prevention I imagine). Why lock it all down? Cost?

It's a LEED rating thing.

If you can rely upon windows entirely for ventilation and thermal control, that's great.

Otherwise, windows that open leak more air when you don't want them to. They also let in more humid air, which in turn has a higher specific heat capacity and requires more energy to dry the air later. Their usage tends to be uneven, so you often have open windows while AC is also running elsewhere or in the same room, and this can upset air handling.

So, windows that open can paradoxically increase energy consumption in larger buildings.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#103

Post by ajmurmann »

nikolay wrote: post #88
ajmurmann wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is hand washing even that relevant given the virus gets mostly inhaled? I've never seen any studies on this.

I haven't seen any proof either. But people keep poisoning their lungs with alcohol and other toxic vapors!

To be clear, I'm very much in favor of hand washing and have been using hand sanitizer whenever I come home since we'll before the pandemic. It helps with other infectious diseases, but I wonder about COVID

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#104

Post by antoniuschan99 »

nicoburns wrote: post #4

This agrees with my intuitive impression of everything I've read on Covid-19: that the primary transmission vector is through the being in unventilated or poorly ventilated enclosed spaces with an infected person for ~15 minutes or longer. I definitely feel like neither governmental policies or people's individual precautions and behaviours quite reflect that reality.

Viruses spread because of their hosts (us). In the past it was because of various sanitary conditions that allowed viruses to spread. Now that we have largely clean sanitation practices (showering, clean tap water, toilets), our practice of staying indoors and often in cramped places (elevators, transportation, work, school) is an easy way for a virus to chance on this way to spread.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#105

Post by sjg007 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #94
sjg007 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope these were confirmed cases.

Yes, I understand that the times you had symptoms, the infection was confirmed to be flu. What wasn't tested (or detected) were the times when you were asymptommatic but still infected with one the many influenza variants. English is a little problematic when it comes to describing infectious disease. In all cases, there is the disease agent (e.g. an influenza virus) and there are the disease symptoms (e.g. "flu"). B…

Following your logic I should have had residual immunity to keep most of the variants in check. The first time I had the flu in college it was brutal and I was out of commission. The second time diagosed I got tamiflu after the flu test and it was mild. I also knew I was sick. Anything in between was unnoticed and I have had a flu shot since they first came on the market.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#106

Post by taeric »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #90
taeric wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Annoyingly, my intuitive impression is that we are still far more ignorant than we'd care to admit. Being in a place where we all willingly wear masks to grocery shop, I get the impression we are far more cautious than most places. Still, I expect it is just a matter of time before we are exposed. Why? I honestly don't know. It isn't lack of wanting to be safer. But it has gotten fatiguing to try to keep up with what…

The precautions required to guarantee zero exposure to an airborne virus are incredibly more substantial than most of us will ever be able to carry out in ordinary life (think biohazard labs). So yes, almost all of us are going to be exposed to SARS-COV-2 at some point. Slowdowns are doubleplus good because the biggest risk from the disease is related to its impact on public health care systems rather than serious il…

This angle feels like giving up on all of the covid deaths. And is somewhat at odds with all cause mortality being attributed to undiagnosed covid.

I am open to the argument. Just feels to be begging a lot of other questions.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#107

Post by Eelongate »

inamberclad wrote: post #38
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but this is unacceptable. We have shut down entire industries, made some people 2nd class citizens, and wrote blank checks to healthcare companies to solve this problem, and your concern is lost heat and the environment ? Any common sense government would have mandated open windows a long time ago, in most transportation systems and in federal buildings that could bear it, instead we wasted valuable time wi…

What's the end-game there? Opening windows doesn't eradicate the virus. Admittedly, we don't have a clear end-game as things stand, but what you suggest is just another mitigation factor, not a solution.

The end game is that we get to all enjoy some fresh air, isn't that enough? I've been doing this for years, long before any covid.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#108

Post by antoniuschan99 »

Eelongate wrote: post #96
willyt wrote: post #72

> Pumping in adequate amounts of fresh outside air, however engineered, will challenge running costs as well as carbon status. This is wrong. Mechanical Heat Recovery Ventilation (MVHR) is a well established technology which can recycle 96% of the heat from the waste air in a house. It costs about the same to fit as a central heating system. Passive houses have very high Air Changes per Hour (ACH) compared to convent…

In much of the world for much of the year, it doesn't get below freezing for at least part of the day. The solution to the heating problem is simple then: simply don't. Open windows when it's above 50F / 10C (to give a healthy safety margin to the water pipes) and tell people to wear sweaters. Do this where it's possible and you'll offset the energy expenditure of heating in places were it actually earnestly gets col…

I'm surprised the opening the window part is still not been mentioned much. It's been several months since Hong Kong made all establishments to maintain air flow of 25 times per hour (something like that).

It's definitely more difficult to tell colder climate countries to open windows, but really just wear a sweater or a jacket.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#109

Post by belorn »

ceejayoz wrote: post #40
WithinReason wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masks have been recommended heavily since the beginning without good evidence that they are effective. [0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047217v... CONCLUSIONS Most included trials had poor design, reporting and sparse events. There was insufficient evidence to provide a recommendation on the use of facial barriers without other measures. We found insufficient evidence for a difference between…

We've had a lot more information come out since March 2020. The Bangladesh study is a particularly good one, demonstrating changes in disease prevalence even with less than half the population following masking recommendations: https://ncrc.jhsph.edu/research/the-impact-of-community-mask...

The bangladesh study showed that groups of people that are spending large portion of their days inside small huts will benefit from mask. One particular area was also mosques which has a large number of people coming and going, with people being near each other indoors.

Mask makes great sense in specific contexts. Near vulnerable groups. In tight spaces and areas of low ventilation. In areas where a large number of people meet. The further away from such areas, the less evidence we get.

There is a reason why conferences is generally associated with people getting sick, while the same can't be said about the beach.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#110

Post by nradov »

sjg007 wrote: post #70
taeric wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Annoyingly, my intuitive impression is that we are still far more ignorant than we'd care to admit. Being in a place where we all willingly wear masks to grocery shop, I get the impression we are far more cautious than most places. Still, I expect it is just a matter of time before we are exposed. Why? I honestly don't know. It isn't lack of wanting to be safer. But it has gotten fatiguing to try to keep up with what…

I have had the flu twice. The first was in college and then second was when my kids were in pre-school/elementary school.

Many influenza infections are asymptomatic. Unless you've been getting tested every week, it's entirely possible that you have had the flu more than twice.
Post reply on HN