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Bank transfers as a payment method

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Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#241

Post by ThrowAwayIRUK »

MilaM wrote: post #170
elric wrote: post #75

The article is factually incorrect when it talks about "SEPA payments", claiming they are a "pull" mechanism. What it probably meant to talk about, is SEPA Direct Debits -- where the counterpart charges your account, as opposed to you paying the counterpart. Given that these direct debit agreements are revokable at any point in time, I doubt the claims of very high fraud rate. A normal SEPA payment, is a "push" affai…

Because the rules governing SEPA Direct Debits are very consumer friendly, it might be somewhat risky for businesses to use this payment method. To keep fraud at check as a creditor, you have to do some due diligence like checking credit scores or know your customer very well. From the consumers perspective though, at least where I live, direct debit is regarded as a secure and convenient method for recurring payment…

SEPA SDD Core has one big advantage for (trustworthy) customers of a merchant:

it's fucking cheap for the merchant :-)

and with cheap, i mean, reeeeeaaalllyyyy cheap (well, depending on your PSP/etc.)

for a bank, the "purchasing costs" per one SEPA SDD at your central bank is in the fractions of the fractions of a cent. (you can check the rates on your local central bank website)

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#242

Post by plantain »

elyobo wrote: post #161
laurencei wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is 24 hours for the first, then instant after that.

That's at the bank's discretion, rather than something enforced by the system.

It still totally undermines the system. I went two hours out of town to pickup a car, expecting to pay on the spot with PayID instantly, just like dozens of times before. It triggered the mysterious 24 hour waiting period of my or their bank (the biggest in Australia), and of course the sellers wouldn't let me take the car. Dozens of calls to the bank, escalations - nothing can be done.

I had to cancel the transaction (by lying and saying it was fraudulent), drove to the bank, withdrew the money in cash, and paid the good-old-fashioned way. headdesk.

PayID is useless as a payment system if you can't actually rely on it to make a payment in a timely manner.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#243

Post by rntksi »

rognjen wrote: post #188

In Southeast Asia, bank transfers as payment are part of the norm. On our platform much more than half of all payments use bank transfers. For Malaysia specifically this is facilitated by a nation-wide provider in which all banks must participate. Because of that payment gateways can just integrate with that provider and not with individual banks. The maximum fees are also set by the government. Transfers must be fre…

Southeast Asian resident here as well. We even pay shipping fees by bank transfer to our motorcycle drivers (!). This is like 0.5$ or 1$. Everyone has a bank account and transfers happen instantly thanks to a free, 24/7 platform that all Banks partake in.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#244

Post by miki123211 »

odiroot wrote: post #153
hyperman1 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to agree. Everything in the article about Europe is technically correct, but it is such a small slice of the SEPA payments. The article is so misleading it might as well be wrong. I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. For fraud, my bank provides a gui with active agreements. While I can't…

> I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. SEPA direct debit is a really really popular thing in Germany. Most utilities prefer (quite understandably) to pull from you instead of waiting for your transfer. Even landlords usually give you an agreement form to pull your rent out of your account. I got…

I find Blik to be one of the best payment methods ever invented.

It gives you a one-time-use 6-digit code that is valid for no more than two minutes. When the code is given to a merchant, either on line or in person, you get a popup with the amount and merchant name which you need to manually approve. You can give that code out over the phone to a family member who's currently at the store buying things for you, or to a child who's trying to get something for themselves. This is extremely convenient while still being secure, and it allows for secure payments on shared, malware-infested computers.

Some online services also give you the option to remember your device for future use. If you decide to do so, you will get a notification the next time you're trying to pay there, which you still need to approve. This is more convenient than typing in a code, while still being as secure.

This system is pretty resistant to fraud (you always need to approve the amount in your banking app), while allowing for irreversible payments, which merchants like.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#245

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

odiroot wrote: post #153
hyperman1 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to agree. Everything in the article about Europe is technically correct, but it is such a small slice of the SEPA payments. The article is so misleading it might as well be wrong. I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. For fraud, my bank provides a gui with active agreements. While I can't…

> I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. SEPA direct debit is a really really popular thing in Germany. Most utilities prefer (quite understandably) to pull from you instead of waiting for your transfer. Even landlords usually give you an agreement form to pull your rent out of your account. I got…

There are also some third parties which utilize the fact that transfers within the same bank are instant - they have bank accounts in all of those and a settlement system built on top of that. You transfer the money to them, and then they send a transfer directly from the bank of recipient. It's nearly instant, but has some limits to it (several thousand euros).

In fact it's quite jarring when you have companies try to do something in Polish market and they don't do basic research into payment methods.

Take for example Luxxotica - I was buying some glasses as a gift yesterday, and they support two payment methods:

- card payment

- PayPal

Paypal hasn't been popular for years with all the other alternatives, and many people are wary of using cards to buy goods over the internet. In fact my card payment was blocked (which essentially never happens in any other methods) and I went to buy the glasses physically at a reseller.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#246

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

Findecanor wrote: post #164
l33tman wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Klarna has been aggressive in trying to push consumers into acknowledging Klarna to pull from their accounts lately. People are used to Klarna here (Sweden), with their "pay on invoice in 14 days for no additional fee" since long, but now they're trying to leverage that into getting customers setup with their bank accounts. Of course they are not going to use this to explicitly steal from customers but still you wond…

I would not trust Klarna for anything. Klarna's use of dark patterns on the web for leading people into debt over choosing other payment methods has been outlawed in Sweden, but I've read that they have continued doing it in other countries.

Quite frankly the practice of requiring bank credentials from consumers should be entirely banned via some laws. It pries on gullible people.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#247

Post by BlueTemplar »

jacquesm wrote: post #114
brnt wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_If_ you get your salary on/before the 25th. Because changing the invoice date is almost never possible, and government agencies are even explicit about that.

If you live that close to zero you have other problems. I would highly recommend reviewing your finances in great detail to figure out how you are going to create a small buffer.

I do but I still don't like having large changes in my "live" account. So I have an agreement with my landlord that I only pay around the 8th, after all the money came in. (Via programmed to repeat SEPA push, have to remember to change it every spring when the rent increases.)

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#248

Post by alkonaut »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #234
alkonaut wrote: post #163

Another article describing what sounds like science fiction in the US but is established in a lot of the rest of the world? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the article but when I purchase stuff online the checkout options are “bank transfer”, “credit card” or “invoice”, with the direct bank transfer often being the default choice these days.

In which country and what are you buying? In my experience (UK) the only services accepting bank transfers are financial institutions (Coinbase, Revolut). Most stores prefer to pay CC fees and have a smoother checkout experience, probably to grab those extra % points of customer converting. A lot of e-commerces online even offer Paypal (even more ridiculous fees and infinite hassles for sellers) just because it's mor…

Sweden. And anything. The same seems to be the case when buying from other Nordic retailers.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#249

Post by BlueTemplar »

mdp2021 wrote: post #92
jkirsteins wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's less "factually incorrect" and more "nuanced and incomplete". As a European that moved between countries, I was very surprised when I learned that SEPA allows a "pull" mechanism even exists. I lived 30 years in Latvia without knowing this is a feature in SEPA because every single payment is a "push" mechanism. I'm not sure if banks can turn this feature off, or if it just culturally never gained traction…

> if banks can turn this feature off You have to demand it. (Some of them will propose their solution.) > if it just culturally never gained traction. Very few people have read the PSD2 directive. (This friend of mine met a bank consultant who mixed it with a gaming console.)

Yeah, lol, I remember when SEPA pull first came around about half a decade ago, and how many months later, I had to explain to my own bank how they were supposed to give me whitelist and/or blacklist options for the pullers. They claimed never have heard about it, while that directive was only a couple of pages long and readable by someone that didn't knew about any technical banking details !
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