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Bank transfers as a payment method

bam.kalzumeus.com

161–170 of 335 posts

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a delay of first transactions. PayID is what it it is called for most banks.

I believe it is 24 hours for the first, then instant after that.

That's at the bank's discretion, rather than something enforced by the system.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#162

Australia's New Payment Platform performs bank transfers instantly, and can use email address, phone number, or business ID as a destination (the recipient must first have registered this with their bank). No fees. It's pretty decent. https://www.rba.gov.au/payments-and-infrastructure/new-payme...

There is a delay of first transactions. PayID is what it it is called for most banks.

PayID is the service that let's you pay to a mobile / email / ABN, but it's not the only use - smaller value transfers to a standard BSB are also often instant thanks to Osko which is also using the New Payment Platform.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#163
Another article describing what sounds like science fiction in the US but is established in a lot of the rest of the world? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the article but when I purchase stuff online the checkout options are “bank transfer”, “credit card” or “invoice”, with the direct bank transfer often being the default choice these days.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to agree. Everything in the article about Europe is technically correct, but it is such a small slice of the SEPA payments. The article is so misleading it might as well be wrong. I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. For fraud, my bank provides a gui with active agreements. While I can't…

Klarna has been aggressive in trying to push consumers into acknowledging Klarna to pull from their accounts lately. People are used to Klarna here (Sweden), with their "pay on invoice in 14 days for no additional fee" since long, but now they're trying to leverage that into getting customers setup with their bank accounts. Of course they are not going to use this to explicitly steal from customers but still you wond…

I would not trust Klarna for anything.

Klarna's use of dark patterns on the web for leading people into debt over choosing other payment methods has been outlawed in Sweden, but I've read that they have continued doing it in other countries.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#165

Odd not to touch on Open Banking and PSD2 in Europe; as that is basically the future he is talking about. In essence; financial institutions are legislated to add customer friendly UX and fraud prevention on top of standard bank to bank transfers. It's effectively a set of APIs that orchestrate it all, with things like dynamic linking to the payment and secure authentication rules for anti fraud. The idea is for comm…

Cynical me reads this article as follows:

Shit! We promised investors that Stripe will be the sh*t, the Global Payment Network. Now banks and regulators have woken up and we are commoditised in India, Japan and EU. Sure hope FedNow won't follow suit. Sorry VCs. Please exit Stripe before it's too late.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#166

Odd not to touch on Open Banking and PSD2 in Europe; as that is basically the future he is talking about. In essence; financial institutions are legislated to add customer friendly UX and fraud prevention on top of standard bank to bank transfers. It's effectively a set of APIs that orchestrate it all, with things like dynamic linking to the payment and secure authentication rules for anti fraud. The idea is for comm…

exactly. A2A payments are already here in the UK with Open Banking rails and VRP/Sweeping coming in the next year (or so).

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#167
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to agree. Everything in the article about Europe is technically correct, but it is such a small slice of the SEPA payments. The article is so misleading it might as well be wrong. I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. For fraud, my bank provides a gui with active agreements. While I can't…

Interestingly, some of the in-person debit card payments I make from my German bank appear to work internally as direct debits. They appear as "SEPA-ELV-LASTSCHRIFT" on statement. Other card payments are just called "KARTENZAHLUNG". Interestingly, the Lastschrift (direct debit) payments seem reversible on my bank interface, so I could get the money back (presumably invoking letters from the company and debt collector…

When using the girocard there's two ways the retailer can take the amount. Either instantly, or using Lastschrift. The latter is cheaper, but the retailer doesn't have the guarantee that your account actually has sufficient balance to pay. If I remember correctly, the latter method requires you to sign the receipt.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#168

If pay with debit card you are doing a bank transfer. Maybe in the US most people are using credit cards but in EU many are using debit cards.

Not really. From a purely technical perspective there’s no real difference between a credit card and a debit card. The mechanism for moving money is identical.

The only difference is that one moves money from a credit account, the other moves it from a debit account.

The costs via Visa/MasterCard are broadly the same. The clearing and settlement process is also broadly the same. Neither are as quick or finite as a bank transfer. One big difference for a merchant is that debit/credit cards have a dispute process (called chargebacks), whereas bank transfers generally don’t.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#169
post #152

Does any European bank actually have a public API? My bank (Danske Bank) does not. Even the first step of logging-in with our digital sign-on (NemID) is a bit tricky to automate. (MitID's rsa key fob might make it easier)

https://truelayer.com/

https://developers.monzo.com/

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#170
post #75

The article is factually incorrect when it talks about "SEPA payments", claiming they are a "pull" mechanism. What it probably meant to talk about, is SEPA Direct Debits -- where the counterpart charges your account, as opposed to you paying the counterpart. Given that these direct debit agreements are revokable at any point in time, I doubt the claims of very high fraud rate. A normal SEPA payment, is a "push" affai…

Because the rules governing SEPA Direct Debits are very consumer friendly, it might be somewhat risky for businesses to use this payment method. To keep fraud at check as a creditor, you have to do some due diligence like checking credit scores or know your customer very well.

From the consumers perspective though, at least where I live, direct debit is regarded as a secure and convenient method for recurring payments. A consumer can revoke a fraudulent payment within 8 weeks. It's as easy as clicking a button in your online banking. If the counterparty can not prove that it was explicitly authorized by the consumer to make SEPA Direct Debits, the payment can be revoked for up to 13 months.

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