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The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

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Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#31

Post by thelettere »

WalterBright wrote: post #26

> Since education rather than money is calling the shots, we have the freedom to ask unheard-of questions. Who is paying the bills, then? > no grades There's a reason why students cram at the end of the semester. Without pressure from grades, they won't do the work of learning. I know for a fact that I don't learn if there aren't exams and grades.

Maybe you aren't everyone. There are already a number of colleges and universities that don't use grades, and many have been around for a half century or more and are among the most prestigious liberal arts institutions in the country.

But maybe you're right and it's all a sham.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#32

Post by pdmccormick »

Has anyone ever stopped to consider the ethical question of applying the latest unproven fads of educational theory to unwitting students? Ideally before large scale rollouts?

As someone who grew up during a tumultuous time for the public education system in Ontario, Canada, it felt like ever year or two whole curriculums were thrown out and the latest and greatest "cutting edge" approaches and fads were foisted upon us. I can see a lot of parallels in software development, but I wonder about the specific potential for lasting damaging effects for children and young people. I know I experienced some gaps that took a long time to be addressed.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#33

Post by AnimalMuppet »

WalterBright wrote: post #26

> Since education rather than money is calling the shots, we have the freedom to ask unheard-of questions. Who is paying the bills, then? > no grades There's a reason why students cram at the end of the semester. Without pressure from grades, they won't do the work of learning. I know for a fact that I don't learn if there aren't exams and grades.

Of the things you learned under pressure of exams and grades, how many of them do you actually remember? That is, did you learn for long enough to pass the test, or did you learn?

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#34

Post by marginalia_nu »

derekjdanserl wrote: post #5

[flagged]

While you can read the republic as a political discussion, and I won't blame you if you do that given how piecemeal antique philosophers are often taught in contemporary academia, but in context it really is more of a discussion about the nature of justice, rather than a political manual. That is what he is trying to do, explore a just society would look like, and through it, trying to find the nature of justice. That is actually still a fairly interesting discussion.

Justice is very much part of the zeitgeist, but how many actually stop to ask what that even means? What does it mean for a society to be just, for a person to be just? If we can't produce an answer to those questions, how are we ever going to produce justice, or be just?

Plato's critique of democracy isn't something we should reject on the account that it's a critique of democracy. He makes a few good points, it's not some intellectual check mate, but it's something any follower of democracy should have answers to, they are problems any democracy needs to work toward solving. If there is any take-away from Plato, it is that we get closer to truth by asking questions, by exploring murky half-thought thoughts and figuring out where they don't quite add up.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#35

Post by WalterBright »

thelettere wrote: post #31
WalterBright wrote: post #26

> Since education rather than money is calling the shots, we have the freedom to ask unheard-of questions. Who is paying the bills, then? > no grades There's a reason why students cram at the end of the semester. Without pressure from grades, they won't do the work of learning. I know for a fact that I don't learn if there aren't exams and grades.

Maybe you aren't everyone. There are already a number of colleges and universities that don't use grades, and many have been around for a half century or more and are among the most prestigious liberal arts institutions in the country. But maybe you're right and it's all a sham.

> Maybe you aren't everyone.

I didn't say "all students".

> a number of colleges and universities that don't use grades

An example of a prestigious university that doesn't use grades would help your case.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#36

Post by smt88 »

wantsanagent wrote: post #7

"We rely on donations from readers and benefactors to pay our staff director and expenses like our Zoom subscriptions." So begging is your business model?

> So begging is your business model?

Begging is a valid, profitable business model. Louis CK[1] and Radiohead[2] famously did it.

Although nonprofits don't get to retain profits or pay taxes on them, they can certainly earn a profit, which means there are thousands of organizations whose business model is begging. You may be interested to learn that the (supposedly) ultra-capitalist Ayn Rand Institute is among them.

1. https://theweek.com/speedreads/570880/louis-ck-released-new-...

2. https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/did-radioheads-in-rainbo...

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#37

Post by Closi »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #25
Closi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, two things: 1) It's not profit generating, this is a not-for-profit organisation, so 'business model' is a bit of a loaded term. 2) The practice of having clubs / social groups where members are encouraged to donate money to help with the running costs is pretty common, and is not typically considered begging. I help run a local theatre group which we fund with a whip-around with our members to assist with the…

"this is a not-for-profit organisation, so 'business model' is a bit of a loaded term" This particular not-for-profit may have no business model, i.e. no revenue outside of donations. But there are many not-for-profit entities that rely on services/fees (as opposed to donations) to fund their operations. For many of these non-profits, the main things that distinguish them from for-profit companies is that: A) The fou…

Let's not grow this thing into something bigger than it is - it's effectively a nice book club focussed on philosophy, and which had 115 readers as of June last year.

It looks lovely, and looks like they have great growth, but let's not blow it out of proportion.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#38

Post by marginalia_nu »

derekjdanserl wrote: post #17
barry-cotter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have interpretations of the Republic. Other people have different ones. Discussing them is the point.

It is not a mere coincidence that discussing Marx’s Capital is never the point. They are approximately equivalent in their influence on humanity, but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation.

The big difference is that (early-middle) Plato mostly asks questions and poses problems, whereas Marx expounds doctrine.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#39

Post by AnimalMuppet »

_lqaf wrote: post #28
zepto wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that it’s dangerous. It’s that it has been tried and shown not to work. It certainly merits a history lesson and a post-mortem discussion, but that’s about it.

This is an oft-repeated nonsense line to dismiss some really interesting philosophy. Marx was not writing a plan of action, and all that has been proved is that authoritarian assholes are assholes. (I take if you also think Adam Smith should be discarded because parts of "Inquiry into the Wealth of Nations" doesn't map well to modern capitalism?) Here's a real test of a free thinker. Are you willing to read "dangerou…

> Marx was not writing a plan of action

Then he failed his own "the point is to change it" test.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#40

Post by [deleted] »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #22
seneca wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not a mere coincidence that discussing Marx’s Capital is never the point. > They are approximately equivalent in their influence on humanity, but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation. And only one of them lead to the death of millions of people. There is a reason some things are discredited. People don't generally spend time debating the points of Mein Kamf either.

I’m surprised to see “this book is dangerous” as a reason why a book shouldn’t be discussed in intellectual spaces in a place like HN.

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