The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education • Hacker News Board

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#21

Post by SamoyedFurFluff » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:21 PM UTC

civilized wrote: post #19

derekjdanserl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a mere coincidence that discussing Marx’s Capital is never the point. They are approximately equivalent in their influence on humanity, but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation.

[flagged]

That’s just dodging the parents point though, which isn’t the implementation of whatever is in the pages of a text but that the text itself doesn’t get as much discussion intentionally because it’s more relevant than other works that serve as feel good dopamine hits for the intellectual.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#22

Post by SamoyedFurFluff » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

seneca wrote: post #20

derekjdanserl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a mere coincidence that discussing Marx’s Capital is never the point. They are approximately equivalent in their influence on humanity, but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation.

> It is not a mere coincidence that discussing Marx’s Capital is never the point. > They are approximately equivalent in their influence on humanity, but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation. And only one of them lead to the death of millions of people. There is a reason some things are discredited. People don't generally spend time debating the points of Mein Kamf either.

I’m surprised to see “this book is dangerous” as a reason why a book shouldn’t be discussed in intellectual spaces in a place like HN.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#23

Post by zepto » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

derekjdanserl wrote: post #17

barry-cotter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have interpretations of the Republic. Other people have different ones. Discussing them is the point.

It is not a mere coincidence that discussing Marx’s Capital is never the point. They are approximately equivalent in their influence on humanity, but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation.

The big difference between Marx and Plato is that Plato’s political theories have never been empirically tested.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#24

Post by zepto » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:27 PM UTC

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #22

seneca wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not a mere coincidence that discussing Marx’s Capital is never the point. > They are approximately equivalent in their influence on humanity, but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation. And only one of them lead to the death of millions of people. There is a reason some things are discredited. People don't generally spend time debating the points of Mein Kamf either.

I’m surprised to see “this book is dangerous” as a reason why a book shouldn’t be discussed in intellectual spaces in a place like HN.

It’s not that it’s dangerous. It’s that it has been tried and shown not to work.

It certainly merits a history lesson and a post-mortem discussion, but that’s about it.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#25

Post by rahimnathwani » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

Closi wrote: post #18

wantsanagent wrote: post #7

"We rely on donations from readers and benefactors to pay our staff director and expenses like our Zoom subscriptions." So begging is your business model?

Well, two things: 1) It's not profit generating, this is a not-for-profit organisation, so 'business model' is a bit of a loaded term. 2) The practice of having clubs / social groups where members are encouraged to donate money to help with the running costs is pretty common, and is not typically considered begging. I help run a local theatre group which we fund with a whip-around with our members to assist with the…

"this is a not-for-profit organisation, so 'business model' is a bit of a loaded term"

This particular not-for-profit may have no business model, i.e. no revenue outside of donations.

But there are many not-for-profit entities that rely on services/fees (as opposed to donations) to fund their operations. For many of these non-profits, the main things that distinguish them from for-profit companies is that:

A) The founders don't get rich from an exit. They (and their cronies) get rich from buying their own services.

B) They can more easily get contracts from government entities that can for-profit companies. Because somehow people see outsourcing to for-profit companies as 'privatization', but outsourcing to non-profits as supporting the local economy.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#26

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

> Since education rather than money is calling the shots, we have the freedom to ask unheard-of questions.

Who is paying the bills, then?

> no grades

There's a reason why students cram at the end of the semester. Without pressure from grades, they won't do the work of learning. I know for a fact that I don't learn if there aren't exams and grades.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#27

Post by xhevahir » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

derekjdanserl wrote: post #5

[flagged]

I don't get it. You think people shouldn't read The Republic because they'll inevitably misunderstand it? Studying Plato isn't going to turn everyone into a Peter Thiel, if that's the concern.

FWIW, The Republic has a lot of things to say about other subjects besides politics. Things like art, and education, ancient Greek society. I read a really interesting book a few years ago, Preface to Plato, that argued Plato was mostly criticizing the traditional, oral culture of Greece, with its emphasis on rote, formulaic learning. (That's a crude summary of the argument, but anyway...)

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#28

Post by _lqaf » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #24

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m surprised to see “this book is dangerous” as a reason why a book shouldn’t be discussed in intellectual spaces in a place like HN.

It’s not that it’s dangerous. It’s that it has been tried and shown not to work. It certainly merits a history lesson and a post-mortem discussion, but that’s about it.

This is an oft-repeated nonsense line to dismiss some really interesting philosophy.

Marx was not writing a plan of action, and all that has been proved is that authoritarian assholes are assholes. (I take if you also think Adam Smith should be discarded because parts of "Inquiry into the Wealth of Nations" doesn't map well to modern capitalism?)

Here's a real test of a free thinker. Are you willing to read "dangerous ideas" for yourself? Or do you just allow yourself to be steered by what you hear people repeat?

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#29

Post by slibhb » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

xhevahir wrote: post #27

derekjdanserl wrote: post #5

[flagged]

I don't get it. You think people shouldn't read The Republic because they'll inevitably misunderstand it? Studying Plato isn't going to turn everyone into a Peter Thiel, if that's the concern. FWIW, The Republic has a lot of things to say about other subjects besides politics. Things like art, and education, ancient Greek society. I read a really interesting book a few years ago, Preface to Plato, that argued Plato w…

> FWIW, The Republic has a lot of things to say about other subjects besides politics. Things like art, and education, ancient Greek society.

Agreed, and beyond that the sun/line/cave allegories are the most famous thing ever written about epistemology.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#30

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

Closi wrote: post #18

wantsanagent wrote: post #7

"We rely on donations from readers and benefactors to pay our staff director and expenses like our Zoom subscriptions." So begging is your business model?

Well, two things: 1) It's not profit generating, this is a not-for-profit organisation, so 'business model' is a bit of a loaded term. 2) The practice of having clubs / social groups where members are encouraged to donate money to help with the running costs is pretty common, and is not typically considered begging. I help run a local theatre group which we fund with a whip-around with our members to assist with the…

> business model

Even if one has no intention of making a profit, the accounting still has to be done, the books still have to balance, and there has to be enough revenue to cover the expenses.