Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 108 posts

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#61

Post by anon2020dot00 »

rightbyte wrote: post #6
skywal_l wrote: post #2

It's going to be a problem hard to resolved. It can be seen as a perk for a company to offer the possibility of remote work like bonuses or free coffee. The thing is, some people actually hate telework and would rather impose everyone to be present because this is how they feel the most efficient or because it is just how they like to work. So contrary to the traditional employer/employees balance of power, there is…

The greatest advantages of remote work are that it removes many of the downsides of a bad work environment: * No commute (not the employers fault really) * You can zone out in irrelevant meetings. * Sit down during stand-ups. * Soft 'intimidation' does not work well over the phone * No open office noise etc. Since I changed job from a chaotic place with 50min commute each way, to a tidy job within walking distance, t…

Well said on the soft 'intimidation'.

Anecdotally, I've experienced better adherence to processes since the shift to remote work since communication is mostly written instead of oral communication.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#62

Post by rattlesnakedave »

nice_byte wrote: post #57

I'd be fine with such policy. I don't want to ever work remote again. I used to think working from home would be more productive, but found it to be the exact opposite, between an endless supply of distractions, lack of face-to-face communication, overall drudgery of being stuck in your home all day, and having to think about meals (which is a surprisingly annoying change if you're used to just getting whatever's in…

It should all be optional. There should be no x days / week requirement. Management should be able to call everyone into a physical meeting room when necessary, but outside of that there's I'm not sure what x days / week serves.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#63

Post by treesknees »

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #8

It's funny how these big companies try so hard to make their office space as "cool" as possible and think employees enjoy them but the moment they are given the choice to work remotely almost nobody wants to go back to office, at least not on a daily basis..

One thing that bothered me when I interviewed at Google is how much they talked up the perks. Everything from free shuttle service to free food, to all of these "extracurricular" perks like movies, laundry/drycleaning, hair cuts, etc. The campus felt designed to suck more work hours out of you.

If I go play ping pong for an hour, do I now owe that hour to the company later? If I'm working past 5, will I be inclined to keep working because I can just go grab a free bite to eat later?

My current employer offers a few perks. We have pool tables, video games, etc. But you'll pretty much never find people using them because they're busy working. Seems like mostly a recruiting tool and little more. That's why I'm perfectly fine staying home and not utilizing the cool office space. I didn't use that stuff anyway.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#64

Post by VLM »

rightbyte wrote: post #6
skywal_l wrote: post #2

It's going to be a problem hard to resolved. It can be seen as a perk for a company to offer the possibility of remote work like bonuses or free coffee. The thing is, some people actually hate telework and would rather impose everyone to be present because this is how they feel the most efficient or because it is just how they like to work. So contrary to the traditional employer/employees balance of power, there is…

The greatest advantages of remote work are that it removes many of the downsides of a bad work environment: * No commute (not the employers fault really) * You can zone out in irrelevant meetings. * Sit down during stand-ups. * Soft 'intimidation' does not work well over the phone * No open office noise etc. Since I changed job from a chaotic place with 50min commute each way, to a tidy job within walking distance, t…

At my last W-2 job they made me come into the office four days a week even though I had a remote work job. I supported specialized internal application software for three departments spaced roughly 500, 1000, and 2000 miles away from me. I never in my entire term at that job went onsite, they didn't see the point of paying all the money. I never physically met more than 5 or so people I worked with.

This seems "normal" at very large megacorporations if you work at a higher level. I knew Scala and Play framework (trendy and cool at the time; does anyone still use?) so I got shoved into the role; at least they didn't force me to move to one of the operations sites; presumably the other two would squeal too much if the third "got me".

This seems to be how most major corporations work; the "active directory genius" (not me..) is in charge of all AD servers worldwide; does it really matter which city he lives in if he's responsible for servers all over the world? Same for "the woman who's really good at docker" or the guy whom actually understands DNS.

For years I wasted a lot of time, money, and gasoline to drive 20 miles into work just to work on server software 1500 miles away all day long. May as well stay home.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#65

Post by e40 »

I have no doubt that if most people lived next door to the office they wouldn't mind going into the office and might even prefer it. The sad reality for Apple and any company in the Bay Area: house prices near work are insane and commute times to the 'burbs are crazy long. Also, BART has gotten much less safe over the last few years, so some people feel they must drive.

All of Apple's justifications mean nothing in the face of the above.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#66

Post by GeekyBear »

ido wrote: post #24
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #8

It's funny how these big companies try so hard to make their office space as "cool" as possible and think employees enjoy them but the moment they are given the choice to work remotely almost nobody wants to go back to office, at least not on a daily basis..

I interviewed at google (not googleplex but one of their other very fancy offices that spans multiple stories of an expensive skyscraper). The office seemed great as did all the amenities. But it was an hour's commute in each direction and if I had to work there I'd have worked from home as often as I could.

For me, the desire to avoid ridiculous commute times is the most relatable issue.

A two hour daily commute is like adding an additional day to your work week.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#67

Post by rattlesnakedave »

Back-to-the-office movement continues to be spurred by those whose employment depends on productivity theatre, and those who are dissatisfied with their home life and use the office as an escape. Very sad we can't compromise with an agreement where the productive remote folks can show up to the office when absolutely needed, without some arbitrary x days / week requirement. Hopefully this continues the brain drain out of companies that can't get with it due to their large RE holdings & extensive use of PMs.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#68

Post by thanhhaimai »

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #8

It's funny how these big companies try so hard to make their office space as "cool" as possible and think employees enjoy them but the moment they are given the choice to work remotely almost nobody wants to go back to office, at least not on a daily basis..

I disagree with this statement

I don't want to go back to the office not because I want to WFH. It's because COVID is still a big threat. I'd go back to work in the office in a heartbeat if there isn't a pandemic around. The office is cool, and the in person interaction is great, despite me being an introvert.

Unless we have data on how many people choose to work remotely due to COVID, I would not hastily attribute those people to the camp of "only want to work remotely".

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#69

Post by rattlesnakedave »

throwaway_0054 wrote: post #51

Here’s something I don’t understand: Companies across the board the board seem to think they have every right to decide how to structure their employees lives. And almost universally they make a big show about listening to their employees and then afterwards show they don’t care one whit by demonstrating through their actions they either didn’t listen or don’t care. Then they rub salt in the wound with their carefull…

Great observation. I don't think these megaliths will be able to come to this realization. It's directly in opposition to their existence.

The good news is that as those who are honest and productive continue to realize they can form small bands with other like minded productive people, build high trust orgs that and remain profitable due to the agility that affords, we will hopefully not have to put up with this for much longer.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#70

Post by Johnny555 »

spoonjim wrote: post #20

“What employees want” isn’t really relevant. I’m sure employees also want 10x the salary. What matters is 1) can they use their brand, their balance sheet, their luxury office, or other parameters to maintain the workforce of the size and skills required to conduct their business, or 2) is in-person so much more effective than remote that they can compete in the market with fewer or less-skilled on-site workers becau…

“What employees want” isn’t really relevant

I think John Deere said the same thing. When enough employees get together and demand what they want, they'll get it.

Post reply on HN