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Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

lse.ac.uk

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Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#61

Post by AussieWog93 »

adriand wrote: post #25
chrisweekly wrote: post #11

Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.

I assume that Dr Jonathan Birch, Associate Professor at LSE’s Centre for Philosophy of Natural and Social Science, and his team of scientists didn’t encounter this insightful perspective when they reviewed “over 300 scientific studies” in order to arrive at their conclusions… In seriousness though, this comment is a prime example of speciesism. Even if it were true that these crustaceans were “basically bugs” how doe…

>Does being a “bug” justify being boiled alive?

I'm picking on your language choices rather than the overall point of your argument, but have you ever boiled a live crustacean before (and by this, I specifically mean fully submerging the animal under water that is under a rolling boil on a high-temperature flame)?

They don't writhe in agony and try to escape; they die pretty much instantaneously (I'm talking no movement in less than 2 seconds) and have no idea what's coming.

Again, this isn't a comment on the sentience or lack thereof of crustaceans, but boiling them alive isn't nearly as cruel as people make it out to be. What we do to pigs, chickens or cows is far worse.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#63

Post by TeeMassive »

monkeybutton wrote: post #6

Octopi I understand, but lobsters? They have less than half the nervous system of an ant [1]. Are individual ants sentient and worthy of legislating over? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of...

It's more about how much they look like human babies.

Species with more neotenic traits get more protections: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/janimalethics.2.1.0006

Sure lobsters do not look like human babies, but more than ants.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#64

Post by timClicks »

agravier wrote: post #23
moeris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The bar for sentience is quite low. It only means that one is capable of feeling sensations. (For example, Wikipedia gives the definition, "Sentience is the capacity to experience feelings and sensations.")

Why are not all animals recognised as such under that law?

Because at times it's convenient to maim and/or kill them.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#65

Post by mr_toad »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #52
andrekandre wrote: post #9

so, if they are sentient, they can still be eaten legally... then what is the red-line for allowing or not (an animal) to be eaten? sapience?

I think the question is more who can kill an animal? Humans are animals too. But ordinarily one human is not allowed to kill another, except the state of course in countries with death penalty. So if humans can kill humans it makes sense that humans can also kill (other) animals. But you can not kill someone else's animal because it is not your property. Now if it is ok to kill somebody I don't see why it would be an…

> I think the question is more who can kill an animal?

Even in societies that tolerated endemic warfare, slavery, human sacrifice and blood sports, cannibalism was usually off the menu.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#66

Post by andrew_ »

tag2103 wrote: post #34
coolandsmartrr wrote: post #32

David Foster Wallace once wrote an essay called "Consider the Lobster." He argued for the merciful eating of lobsters; rather than boil them alive, make their death instantaneous. How will the legal recognition change their treatment?

Hopefully with extra butter on the side

Please don't leave out the Old Bay seasoning, in a class its own.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#67

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

systemvoltage wrote: post #43
coolandsmartrr wrote: post #32

David Foster Wallace once wrote an essay called "Consider the Lobster." He argued for the merciful eating of lobsters; rather than boil them alive, make their death instantaneous. How will the legal recognition change their treatment?

It is actually insane that there is so much violence in nature. Every minute, there are millions of living things dying – many with unimaginable pain. The evolutionary engine is absolutely merciless. If I want to be terrified, I think what if we, instead of at the top of the food chain, were just second. It terrifies me to no end.

If you really want to be terrified, consider the possibility that most animals have no idea what a food chain is.

So by extension - if in fact we weren't at the top of the food chain, would we even know?

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#68

Post by ModernMech »

agravier wrote: post #23
moeris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The bar for sentience is quite low. It only means that one is capable of feeling sensations. (For example, Wikipedia gives the definition, "Sentience is the capacity to experience feelings and sensations.")

Why are not all animals recognised as such under that law?

The original source linked in TFA states anything with a backbone is covered.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#69

Post by buu700 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #43
coolandsmartrr wrote: post #32

David Foster Wallace once wrote an essay called "Consider the Lobster." He argued for the merciful eating of lobsters; rather than boil them alive, make their death instantaneous. How will the legal recognition change their treatment?

It is actually insane that there is so much violence in nature. Every minute, there are millions of living things dying – many with unimaginable pain. The evolutionary engine is absolutely merciless. If I want to be terrified, I think what if we, instead of at the top of the food chain, were just second. It terrifies me to no end.

Attack on Titan certainly makes it seem less than ideal.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#70

Post by ordiel »

Natsu wrote: post #39
moeris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The bar for sentience is quite low. It only means that one is capable of feeling sensations. (For example, Wikipedia gives the definition, "Sentience is the capacity to experience feelings and sensations.")

Are fetuses not sentient for most of their growth, then?

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