Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.
Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
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Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#12Octopi I understand, but lobsters? They have less than half the nervous system of an ant [1]. Are individual ants sentient and worthy of legislating over? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of...
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Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#13Even as a meat eater I’m pretty shocked that this recognises them as sentient and yet does not ban their slaughter (aside from boiling them alive etc). Maybe I’ve read too much science fiction, but eating sentient beings seems Bad.
I mean, we know cattle, sheep, chickens and pigs are sentient yet we consume them. Why would we make an exception for octopods and shellfish?
Shellfish aren't a massive industry so no one with political power cares to obstruct these laws.
Cattle and sheep are usually treated well because cortisol reduces weight gain. Pigs not so much...
Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#14Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.
And where are cuttlefish?
Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#15Even as a meat eater I’m pretty shocked that this recognises them as sentient and yet does not ban their slaughter (aside from boiling them alive etc). Maybe I’ve read too much science fiction, but eating sentient beings seems Bad.
I mean, we know cattle, sheep, chickens and pigs are sentient yet we consume them. Why would we make an exception for octopods and shellfish?
Pigs might be as smart as 5th graders in some respects, and form complex long term relationships. Some even seem to decorate their dwellings with flowers they pick. Chickens are merciless and deserve everything they get.
Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#16Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.
> The Animal Welfare (Sentience) Bill already recognises all animals with a backbone (vertebrates) as sentient beings. However, unlike some other invertebrates (animals without a backbone ), decapod crustaceans and cephalopods have complex central nervous systems, one of the key hallmarks of sentience.
It’s not that lobsters are being lumped in with octopuses, it’s that they are both being given the same treatment as anything with a backbone. That’s a pretty diverse group.
Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#17Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.
> The Animal Welfare (Sentience) Bill already recognises all animals with a backbone (vertebrates) as sentient beings. However, unlike some other invertebrates (animals without a backbone ), decapod crustaceans and cephalopods have complex central nervous systems, one of the key hallmarks of sentience. It’s not that lobsters are being lumped in with octopuses, it’s that they are both being given the same treatment as…
> they are both being given the same treatment as anything with a backbone.
No, they aren’t treated equal to humans, which are things with backbones.
Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#18Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.
Yup.
Crab and lobster porn isn't really a thing, while Octopoda have a significant, lasting and ancient presence in Japanese lore, James Bond movies and whatnot.
Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#19Octopi I understand, but lobsters? They have less than half the nervous system of an ant [1]. Are individual ants sentient and worthy of legislating over? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of...
Yes. The bar for sentience is quite low. It only means that one is capable of feeling sensations. (For example, Wikipedia gives the definition, "Sentience is the capacity to experience feelings and sensations.")
Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law
#20so, if they are sentient, they can still be eaten legally... then what is the red-line for allowing or not (an animal) to be eaten? sapience?
Random thought: Give every child one as a pet so they get emotionally attached and over time, society will grow to associate these creatures as man's friend.