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Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

lse.ac.uk

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Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#31

Post by The_rationalist »

agravier wrote: post #23
moeris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The bar for sentience is quite low. It only means that one is capable of feeling sensations. (For example, Wikipedia gives the definition, "Sentience is the capacity to experience feelings and sensations.")

Why are not all animals recognised as such under that law?

Would you say tardigrades can feel sensations? I mean yes they can detect and process inputs from the external world but given a lack of better understanding, we believe that qualiesque sentience require a decent number of neurons.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#32

Post by coolandsmartrr »

David Foster Wallace once wrote an essay called "Consider the Lobster." He argued for the merciful eating of lobsters; rather than boil them alive, make their death instantaneous.

How will the legal recognition change their treatment?

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#33

Post by 1270018080 »

thablackbull wrote: post #20
andrekandre wrote: post #9

so, if they are sentient, they can still be eaten legally... then what is the red-line for allowing or not (an animal) to be eaten? sapience?

Random thought: Give every child one as a pet so they get emotionally attached and over time, society will grow to associate these creatures as man's friend.

My grandma lived on a farm and loved playing with the cows. Once she was old enough to connect the dots on what happened to them, and later saw the butchering process, she became vegetarian for life. The layer of separation 99% of the population has between the dark evils of the mass livestock industry and eating meat is an issue.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#34

Post by tag2103 »

coolandsmartrr wrote: post #32

David Foster Wallace once wrote an essay called "Consider the Lobster." He argued for the merciful eating of lobsters; rather than boil them alive, make their death instantaneous. How will the legal recognition change their treatment?

Hopefully with extra butter on the side

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#35

Post by The_rationalist »

adriand wrote: post #25
chrisweekly wrote: post #11

Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.

I assume that Dr Jonathan Birch, Associate Professor at LSE’s Centre for Philosophy of Natural and Social Science, and his team of scientists didn’t encounter this insightful perspective when they reviewed “over 300 scientific studies” in order to arrive at their conclusions… In seriousness though, this comment is a prime example of speciesism. Even if it were true that these crustaceans were “basically bugs” how doe…

Bugs have no central brain. They have small chunks of decentralized neurons which might or not be enough to produce qualias.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#37

Post by jetrink »

lstodd wrote: post #18
chrisweekly wrote: post #11

Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.

Yup. Crab and lobster porn isn't really a thing, while Octopoda have a significant, lasting and ancient presence in Japanese lore, James Bond movies and whatnot.

The James Bond character was actually named after a real octopus that Ian Flemming met in Jamaica[1]. Flemming wanted to befriend it, but before he could, it was eaten by his housemaid. (Credit for this knowledge to the No Such Thing as a Fish podcast.)

1. https://theverbaldiarist.wordpress.com/2019/09/27/my-friend-...

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#38

Post by qbasic_forever »

andrekandre wrote: post #9

so, if they are sentient, they can still be eaten legally... then what is the red-line for allowing or not (an animal) to be eaten? sapience?

In nature the red line is if whatever you're trying to eat has bigger teeth, claws, strength, or stronger venom than you can handle.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#39

Post by Natsu »

moeris wrote: post #19
monkeybutton wrote: post #6

Octopi I understand, but lobsters? They have less than half the nervous system of an ant [1]. Are individual ants sentient and worthy of legislating over? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of...

Yes. The bar for sentience is quite low. It only means that one is capable of feeling sensations. (For example, Wikipedia gives the definition, "Sentience is the capacity to experience feelings and sensations.")

Are fetuses not sentient for most of their growth, then?

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#40

Post by stathibus »

adriand wrote: post #25
chrisweekly wrote: post #11

Crabs and lobsters are basically bugs, whereas an octopus is a creative, playful, intelligent creature with amazing capabilities. It seems strange to group them together.

I assume that Dr Jonathan Birch, Associate Professor at LSE’s Centre for Philosophy of Natural and Social Science, and his team of scientists didn’t encounter this insightful perspective when they reviewed “over 300 scientific studies” in order to arrive at their conclusions… In seriousness though, this comment is a prime example of speciesism. Even if it were true that these crustaceans were “basically bugs” how doe…

It's weird how use of the word "speciesism" implies that some place humans above other animals as a result of some kind of fallacy or irrational thinking, and not because we are humans and therefore more valuable to each other. Never mind the fact that we have consciousness and ego and complex nervous systems, whereas lobsters do not.
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