I think Honda got this exactly right, at least in my 2018 car. There is a touchscreen that controls everything, but also physical knobs and buttons for the important stuff you'd want to control while keep your eyes on the road (radio volume, A/C, radio frequency, seat heaters, transmission gear, etc). If you want more detail and more options, you can go to the touchscreen, but if you just need the basics, you can do it without looking down.
Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
51–60 of 218 posts
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#52I'm no old fuddy duddy. I'm not even 30 yet. We have a touchscreen hob - for no good reason. Its terrible
My new apartment oven has a touch screen. My wife was cleaning it one day and managed to put the oven into Sabbath Mode. Which I didn't even know was a thing. And it turns out does the opposite of what I thought it would do.
> And it turns out does the opposite of what I thought it would do.
As a Jew, this amuses me greatly. :) That day you learned about one of our greatest loopholes. BTW fun fact, it doesn't count as work if you get a non-Jew to do it for you (or in this case, a computer).
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#53I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?
Datedness of that speculation aside, was dialing numbers without looking at the keypad something people did a lot? Busy Wall Street types maybe?
I'm blind and I could call people whose numbers I know even on a dumb phone with no accessibility. At the moment, some strange failure of the phone screen reader, accidental switch off of volume or whatever and it is game over. Try to restart by the hardware keys and pray that you are not left with a thousand dollar brick in the middle of a trans-continental trip. Real story with my first touch phone with the only difference that at the time I didn't know the hardware keys to restart the brick.
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll take knobs over membrane buttons. Can't believe the entire appliance industry switched.
High-end ovens, such as those above, say, $5k, almost always have knobs. I sure appreciate tuning knobs on car audio systems but almost no one besides Toyota and Lexus offer them any more.
Even though I have a "last gen" Subaru Outback I would never replace it with a new one because they put in a huge center console screen and removed the knobs for climate control. What is odd is the Subaru Ascent actually has knobs for all of this.
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#55I'll offer a contrary perspective that I haven't yet read here: Digital controls have the potential to be more accessible to people who can't turn a knob due to a mobility impairment. Edit: See also ndarilek's explanation of how his mobility-impaired girlfriend benefits from Alexa: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20344613
Why not both?
My 2019 Ford Ranger has all three, opting for at least throwback one -
On the dash, a volume knob w/on-off button in the center and tuning knob
On the steering wheel, digital control buttons (L/R=tuning Up/Dn=volume)
On the Screen, touch controls
But that is all - the climate controls are all the damn flat, blend-it-all-in mini buttons or the touchscreen, so if the windscreen suddenly fogs up it's a few hazardous seconds while you have to keep looking back&forth at the controls and through fogged windscreen to find the [defrost] button.
And yes, I use the knobs probably over half the time. The steering wheel controls are also nice because they can also be used by touch without looking. Probably used the touchscreen controls a couple times while stopped, mostly as a novelty.
Gawd I wish designers would prioritize actual use over how good they think it'll look in some glossy brochure. and, frankly, at this point, I'd rather toss them all and have an ugly knob in a good spot I can use by feel (HINT: I'm NOT looking at it!!), than any flattened wall of pretty backlit buttons. I'm not lounging in a living room, idly caressing your damn panel, I'm driving a two-ton machine at speed.
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#56I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?
Bad example.
Look at musical instruments, particularly synthesizers.
This world went from menu-diving and screens to a full-blown knobfest (for digitally-controlled equipment, mind you).
Specifically, no gear has ever not had the volume knob/slider; but now, there's a knob for everything else.
Also go figure, my $200 Sonicware digital synth made in 2021 can have 15 reliable, precise knobs that will last decades, as well as analog and digital I/O on the front panel, but my $20,000 car can't have either because of cost savings/reliability? Please.
And my Fostex 4-track recorder from 1995 has 24 knobs and 5 sliders, perfectly functioning, and if you think that musicians are gentle on their gear, you haven't seen many musicians.
Knobs and sliders on my Korg, Casio, and Yamaha digital synths from the mid-1980s work well too, never a problem with them.
Let's not pretend that lack of knobs is anything but a UX/aesthetics choice — and for cars, a particularly awful one.
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#57If it's an analog system, I want analog input. If it's a digital system, I want good digital input or excellent tactile input. Stereo: well-weighted analog knobs that are responsive. Computer: mechanical keyboard. Car: Manual Transmission.
what do you drive?
Sold my manual for a Tesla. I drive my wife's manual Mazda when I want to enjoy the driving experience.
Tesla does have good digital inputs, but very little about the car is analog, so I think I'm being consistent.
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#58I think Honda got this exactly right, at least in my 2018 car. There is a touchscreen that controls everything, but also physical knobs and buttons for the important stuff you'd want to control while keep your eyes on the road (radio volume, A/C, radio frequency, seat heaters, transmission gear, etc). If you want more detail and more options, you can go to the touchscreen, but if you just need the basics, you can do…
Recently rented a small-ish Ford (a Puma) which had physical control for almost everything you'd want to adjust while driving, though the touchscreen was pretty crap (and didn't duplicate most of the physical controls, which I didn't mind).
Also it had one of those infuriating pseudo-analog control wheels, where you can keep spinning and spinning the wheel with no effect once it reaches either end of its selection course (the ones where the selection wraps around is also bad, incidentally, probably worse really), thankfully it was for something of low importance (controlling the regime of the headlamps between off, DRL, standard, and automatic, which has an indicator on the dash).
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Huh. When remodeling my kitchen in 2016 the highest priced ovens all had crappy touchscreens. I had to "downgrade" from Miele to Bosch to get knobs.
Yep. All the expensive electric cooktops have touch controls and were obviously designed by people who have never cooked anything in their lives, not even once. I got so fed up with mine that I had my gas cooktop re-installed, even though it was totally contrary to my personal GHG emissions goals.
I've been holding off replacing an old stove I hate for that reason. If someone wants my thousand dollars they will make a stove that is easy to control.
Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)
#60I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?
Bad example. Look at musical instruments, particularly synthesizers. This world went from menu-diving and screens to a full-blown knobfest (for digitally-controlled equipment, mind you). Specifically, no gear has ever not had the volume knob/slider; but now, there's a knob for everything else . Also go figure, my $200 Sonicware digital synth made in 2021 can have 15 reliable , precise knobs that will last decades, as…
Presumably your car will be in places with more demanding climate conditions than your knob-filled synth. And areas of high humidity or with lots of dust/gunk are the places that break down knobs the most.
But I agree that I think it's probably largely a UX/aesthetics choice. Low cost touch screens are usually pretty terrible at handling varying climate conditions, especially compared to some decent knobs/encoders. I'm hoping once the manufacturers are done broadcasting how "modern" their interfaces are, that they'll start adding knobs back in for the common operations (volume, climate control, etc)
I also wonder if the fear stemmed from back when knobs and buttons required extra wiring instead of using buses like most cars do now.