Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009) • Hacker News Board

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#11

Post by nkozyra » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

bnjms wrote: post #6

webwielder2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Datedness of that speculation aside, was dialing numbers without looking at the keypad something people did a lot? Busy Wall Street types maybe?

More than numbers. We would write text messages without looking at the keypad. This required a lot more key presses than a number. I could text while shifting but it wasn’t till touchscreens that everyone decided laws needed to be passed. I miss k9. There were somehow fewer typos.

> I miss k9

T9? Or was there a K9 as well?

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#12

Post by unethical_ban » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

webwielder2 wrote: post #4

rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

Datedness of that speculation aside, was dialing numbers without looking at the keypad something people did a lot? Busy Wall Street types maybe?

Texting while driving was safe! Kind of. You could sense what key you were touching and how many times you touched it. "ha" would be "442" - two presses to get to H, one press for A. "lol" was 555666555. Still safer than Swype and looking down to see the several autocorrect options it gives you, or wondering if your grip was proper for your usual thumb motion. Even if you don't like the reference to driving, this was still convenient. Go watch "The Departed" from 2006 and see how Leo's character types in his pocket.

It's the same justification for keeping radio and climate controls, as well as needed safety buttons like hazard lights, as physically actuated. It is much easier and safer than having to look at an ever-changing panel.

Imagine if your climate control knobs moved around your center console by several inches every time you used them. Was that fan control, or temperature?

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#13

Post by krinchan » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

webwielder2 wrote: post #4

rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

Datedness of that speculation aside, was dialing numbers without looking at the keypad something people did a lot? Busy Wall Street types maybe?

I could T9 an SMS message while holding eye contact with a person. Right down to knowing certain words were “press buttons, down twice”.

I can almost blind type on a touch screen with both thumbs, too. However, it’s no where near as good as I was with hard buttons and Motorola’s particular dialect of T9. Towards the end, Motorola tried to get clever and start reordering the words based on MRU and it played havoc with my muscle memory.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#14

Post by sidlls » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

webwielder2 wrote: post #4

rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

Datedness of that speculation aside, was dialing numbers without looking at the keypad something people did a lot? Busy Wall Street types maybe?

Yes, touch typing is a thing, for many people who aren't "[b]usy Wall Street types".

I can still dial on an analog button phone faster than I can look up and dial a person on my iPhone, and I haven't done the former in 20-some years. Muscle memory is quite powerful.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#15

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#16

Post by tuatoru » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

> So what do product designers have against knobs? Several things. ...

Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability.

Knobs definitely are much better to use, but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms. Most people never have trouble, but that quintile that gives their stuff a hard time costs manufacturers a lot.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#17

Post by bjt » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

Knobs have already come back in some contexts.

I'm thinking of music keyboard workstations and stage keyboards. The products from Nord have swept the stage keyboard market because of their one-knob-per-function design, allowing for quick mid-song adjustments with no menu diving.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#18

Post by bluedino » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

tuatoru wrote: post #16

> So what do product designers have against knobs? Several things. ... Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability. Knobs definitely are much better to use, but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms. Most people never have trouble, but that quintile that gives their stuff a hard time costs manufacturers a lot.

I'll take knobs over membrane buttons. Can't believe the entire appliance industry switched.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#19

Post by selfhoster11 » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

rp1 wrote: post #2

I too want knobs, but this line exemplifies why they're not coming back: > I wonder if Apple iPhone will meet with the same success, as its touchscreen offers no tactile feedback. Will people get tired of having to look down every time they dial a number?

I don't see why not. Typing on Android has been an unceasing exercise in frustration ever since the real Swype and HTC keyboards went defunct. I made 5 typing errors while writing this message alone.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#20

Post by mojuba » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

tuatoru wrote: post #16

> So what do product designers have against knobs? Several things. ... Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability. Knobs definitely are much better to use, but things with moving parts that stick out from the surface are not as reliable in population terms. Most people never have trouble, but that quintile that gives their stuff a hard time costs manufacturers a lot.

> Then the piece omits the two overwhelmingly important reasons: cost and reliability.

Plus that not all industrial designers can create great designs. Often times when I look at e.g. my Bosch electric cooktop I can only imagine its awful touch panel was an afterthought in the design process. It's so bad, awkward and hard to use, it makes me feel sorry for those who created this thing. And for all its users just as well.

Cost savings? I mean, you don't replace the car's steering wheel with a pair of buttons - like on the hilarious picture in the article - just to save on production costs.