Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#111

Post by auganov » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 8:55 AM UTC

clavicat wrote: post #88

voz_ wrote: post #50

Israel is a wonderful country. Scientifically advanced, progressively minded, a bastion of secularism, LGBT rights, and western ideals. The world is, sadly, obsessed with them. I'd love a real explanation why they get so much undue attention given how they behave towards their enemies. Israel drops leaflets before bombing so civilians can clear out. When Hamas stores weapons in schools and Hospitals, Israel exercises…

Notice how your defenses of Israel are identical to the colonial regimes of old. We’re progressive and secular and advanced and humane, not like those terrorist savages who attack us for no reason. The rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of the French justifying their hold on Algeria, or the Japanese over Korea, or the white settler regimes of Africa, or China over the Uighers. If you need it spelt out for you, i…

If Israel constitutes settler colonialism then any immigration or self determination by an eventually successful group must be considered so. Legally settling somewhere and then asserting self determination by necessity seems to be quite different morally from unprovoked military contest by an existing nation. Under this moral framework if there's no nation you like you're forever doomed to being a second class citizen. If attacked , the only moral choice is to let aggressors kill you.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#112

Post by foota » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 8:55 AM UTC

Protostome wrote: post #97

clavicat wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice how your defenses of Israel are identical to the colonial regimes of old. We’re progressive and secular and advanced and humane, not like those terrorist savages who attack us for no reason. The rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of the French justifying their hold on Algeria, or the Japanese over Korea, or the white settler regimes of Africa, or China over the Uighers. If you need it spelt out for you, i…

How is it a settler colonial project when even the name 'Jew' is derived from Judea - which is a kingdom that existed where Israel exists today. The US, Canada, Australia, NZ can be considered settler's colonies much more than Israel since the europeans who settled there had anything whatsover with those places.

It's a fucking region with no relation to the modern state of Israel.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#113

Post by mysecretaccount » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

underdeserver wrote: post #22

systemvoltage wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point Israel is part of shitty American partisan politics. No one thinks on their own. Original thinking is also prohibited by both parties, but mostly by the one that I voted for. I regret voting for them but the other option is worse.

Maybe to Americans it is. To everyone else, including Israelis themselves, it's a completely separate entity.

Completely separate? Israel is an American project. It receives billions in aid from the US every year and has massive influence in congress through AIPAC.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#114

Post by foota » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

Protostome wrote: post #101

clavicat wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is like saying that the Greeks would be justified in invading Turkey and annexing Istanbul and all of Eastern Anatolia because they had an ancient presence there and that their domination over the subjugated Turks wouldn’t constitute colonialism. Attempts at ethnic revanchism based on where humans once lived thousands of years ago is weird, creepy shit. It’s creepy when Hitler did it, and it’s creepy when you do…

Jews didn't invade Israel, that's the only difference. Israel accepted the 1947 partition of the land, while the arabs rejected it. That led to a war, in which the arabs lost. They went all in and lost. One can only imagine what would have happened to the jews in Israel if they would have won.

Why should they have accepted it? It was their territory, was it not?

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#115

Post by throwntoday » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 8:59 AM UTC

qaq wrote: post #55

throwntoday wrote: post #36

I notice how whenever there is anything remotely negative about israel on HN or reddit, the shills come out. The script is always the same (only democracy in the middle east, our greatest ally, the US gets more from them than the other way around, etc.) At this point I have to wonder if JIDF are real and not just a 4chan meme or these are some advanced GPT-3 sockpuppet accounts.

Are all people holding opposing view point shills?

No just the ones that spread falsehoods meant to create the illusion that anything but total support is absurd.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#116

Post by mclightning » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 8:59 AM UTC

Protostome wrote: post #97

clavicat wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice how your defenses of Israel are identical to the colonial regimes of old. We’re progressive and secular and advanced and humane, not like those terrorist savages who attack us for no reason. The rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of the French justifying their hold on Algeria, or the Japanese over Korea, or the white settler regimes of Africa, or China over the Uighers. If you need it spelt out for you, i…

How is it a settler colonial project when even the name 'Jew' is derived from Judea - which is a kingdom that existed where Israel exists today. The US, Canada, Australia, NZ can be considered settler's colonies much more than Israel since the europeans who settled there had anything whatsover with those places.

Are you saying Israelites that relocated to Israel today are ethnogenetically closer to the region than the Arabs that lived there?

I would suspect most of the Israelites that moved there are actually western/european descent, whereas I would not be surprised if a lot of the Arabs there had actual ancient Jewish genes.

All that aside, are we really discussing who can claim ownership to a land based on ancient history, rather than human impact of change of ownership?

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#117

Post by bawolff » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 9:05 AM UTC

clavicat wrote: post #88

voz_ wrote: post #50

Israel is a wonderful country. Scientifically advanced, progressively minded, a bastion of secularism, LGBT rights, and western ideals. The world is, sadly, obsessed with them. I'd love a real explanation why they get so much undue attention given how they behave towards their enemies. Israel drops leaflets before bombing so civilians can clear out. When Hamas stores weapons in schools and Hospitals, Israel exercises…

Notice how your defenses of Israel are identical to the colonial regimes of old. We’re progressive and secular and advanced and humane, not like those terrorist savages who attack us for no reason. The rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of the French justifying their hold on Algeria, or the Japanese over Korea, or the white settler regimes of Africa, or China over the Uighers. If you need it spelt out for you, i…

Isn't that just the rhetoric of any asymetrical conflict (except the secular part which varries)? Whether its Rome complaining about the "barbarians" or America talking about 9/11?

I don't think i have ever heard of an armed international conflict where one side was like "so the other side is super chill, too bad we are at war with them".

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#118

Post by kkjjkgjjgg » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

mysecretaccount wrote: post #86

voz_ wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for accusing me of that. In what way is at an apartheid? There is no systematic discrimination based on race in Israel. I cannot say the same for other countries, esp when it comes to Jews.

Hey, neither of us is going to change the other's view here, so it is not useful to go back and forth like this. If you wanted an answer to that question you could look it up, like I have looked up the arguments and counter arguments to the apartheid question. What is interesting is that the tide is turning and your view is becoming less common, especially among the youth in developed nations, particularly Ireland. T…

What do Irish people know about the situation in Israel? Sorry but that sounds ridiculous.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#119

Post by kkjjkgjjgg » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 9:10 AM UTC

clavicat wrote: post #93

b112 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But unlike every other nation on Earth, they took over land belonging to others! In case people don't notice, that's extreme sarcasm. Every nation on Earth has taken over others, just look at the native peoples of every country in North and South America, of Nordic Countries, Australia. Look at how Europe's borders were re-written 1000 times. Africa. The Middle East. If the beef is (and it seems to be for some) that…

And yet, if another country invaded your country and tried to take your land, you’d think it an injustice, no? Or would you be telling yourself that it’s no big deal, after all, our ancestors took this land from some forgotten people as well?

So what makes "your land" your land? By your logic, couldn't you say Israel is now the land of the Israel people, so it is their right to defend it?

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#120

Post by bawolff » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 9:11 AM UTC

foota wrote: post #114

Protostome wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jews didn't invade Israel, that's the only difference. Israel accepted the 1947 partition of the land, while the arabs rejected it. That led to a war, in which the arabs lost. They went all in and lost. One can only imagine what would have happened to the jews in Israel if they would have won.

Why should they have accepted it? It was their territory, was it not?

(Honest question) under what basis was it "their" territory? Its not like they had soverign control over those lands at that point in history, and from what i understand, in the original partition plans the religious breakdown of the jewish part of the division had more jews in it than palestinians.

Of course in the end that plan didn't happen, but i'm not sure i see why either side really had the superior claim to the land.