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Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

blog.joinmastodon.org

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Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#231

Post by boredumb »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #208
h2odragon wrote: post #14

This (possible but technically not yet a) license violation has gotten more press for OSS licenses and enforcement than anything before, I think. Certainly more press than the Vizio thing, which will actually impact a lot more people if anything comes of it.

Amazon violating open source agreements to host their own version of the product and squeeze the life out of the original company? Not a peep. People whose political opinions differ from my own use the software? This must be stopped at once .

The reaction of people towards political campaigns using facebook data to campaign for US president in 2012 vs 2016 is similarly amusing and migraine inducing.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#232

Post by madaxe_again »

eterevsky wrote: post #186
jlangenauer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The creators created the software, they can put any conditions they please on how others might use it. They're under no moral or legal obligation to allow people to use the fruits of their labors, except as they permit.

They can, which doesn't mean they should. Also, I think a person has a mortal obligation to allow that their political position is at least partially flawed.

Would you say that you should have to work with every potential client who ever approaches you, whether or not they intend to pay, and whether or not they set fire to your dog last fall?

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#233

Post by mdp2021 »

roenxi wrote: post #134
s7r wrote: post #121

In terms of "antithetical values", the machine learning project ml5js.org actually did something about this. They bound their open-source license to a Code of Conduct¹, which forbids the use of their ML software for (1) discriminating against marginalized communities, (2) building tools that disingenuously manipulate public opinion, (3) building tools of mass surveillance and prediction to repress the rights of peopl…

If all software was licensed that way, 5-15 years would pass then suddenly there'd be a whole bunch of "Wow, Stallman was right again! We should have been using free software licenses!" style articles. Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Society has to operate with some level of trust that even people we disagree with, using methods we don't approve of, have the potent…

Your point about the «terrible idea», including the statement «Otherwise the situation will get worse», requires more defence. There is an issue with undesirable use of technology, so many are fearing future regret (Alfred Nobel in front of the title 'Le marchand de la mort est mort') - this has to be assessed, and is not solved by an appeal to trust (which is exactly what is lacking). The fear is about the opposite to «improv[ing] the world».

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#234

Post by mijoharas »

paradite wrote: post #101

What if I deployed my own node and just changed some css styling? Do I also need to somehow open source the changes? Edit: And what if I wrap it with another service, say a CDN, that changed some behaviour and styling (proxying, path rewrite, etc)?

1. yes.

2. I think no, but I believe this is a contentious point, and it depends on whether the "mastodon instance + CDN/proxy/whatever" constitutes a "derived work" or not.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#235

Post by madaxe_again »

dmos62 wrote: post #203
jlangenauer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The creators created the software, they can put any conditions they please on how others might use it. They're under no moral or legal obligation to allow people to use the fruits of their labors, except as they permit.

The creators are themselves fruit of the society. It's short-sighted to grant them the privilege to withhold their fruit.

Indeed. I would like your life savings, please, as I too am part of society. Venmo or PayPal?

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#236

Post by lettergram »

s7r wrote: post #191
roenxi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all software was licensed that way, 5-15 years would pass then suddenly there'd be a whole bunch of "Wow, Stallman was right again! We should have been using free software licenses!" style articles. Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Society has to operate with some level of trust that even people we disagree with, using methods we don't approve of, have the potent…

> Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Everyone is free to use the software. If a project is found to be in violation of the Code of Conduct (e.g. discriminating against marginalized communities, manipulating public opinion, automating weapons) than the community developing the software takes steps to remedy the problem with the reported violator, or the project falls o…

> discriminating against marginalized communities

If mastodon had this in the code of conduct they’d not be able to use their own software haha. They banned Gab and arguably Trump has a marginalized base and as far as I’m aware never advocated for violence (if you believe the contrary, note that trump could have been arrested but hasn’t)

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#237

Post by qwerty456127 »

LOL lawyers are so lawyers, always trying to claim everything to be their "proprietary property" with everything reasonably and unreasonably relevant altogether. Next they will probably sue somebody for merely looking in their code so they could even discover it has something to do with Mastodon and try to convince the judge there is no evidence which was obtained a legal way and can be taken in account this way :-]

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#238

Post by Ardren »

roenxi wrote: post #134
s7r wrote: post #121

In terms of "antithetical values", the machine learning project ml5js.org actually did something about this. They bound their open-source license to a Code of Conduct¹, which forbids the use of their ML software for (1) discriminating against marginalized communities, (2) building tools that disingenuously manipulate public opinion, (3) building tools of mass surveillance and prediction to repress the rights of peopl…

If all software was licensed that way, 5-15 years would pass then suddenly there'd be a whole bunch of "Wow, Stallman was right again! We should have been using free software licenses!" style articles. Restricting software use to only people approved by the creators is a terrible idea. Society has to operate with some level of trust that even people we disagree with, using methods we don't approve of, have the potent…

> If all software was licensed that way, 5-15 years would pass then suddenly there'd be a whole bunch of "Wow, Stallman was right again! We should have been using free software licenses!" style articles.

Why do you think that would be the case? If the license doesn't achieve what the creator wanted, then they can just change it. It's not up to the greater community to decide what the best license is for other peoples projects.

It sounds like you have your own idea of what will "improve the world" and want other people to license their work to match with it.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#239

Post by emn13 »

havkd wrote: post #175
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who defines what 'marginalization of people' means The software creators, which seems very reasonable to me. This isn't some arbitrary judge deeming what is marginalizing or not. This is the creators of the software saying "We don't want to build something that complete dickweeds can use for evil." Don't like their definition of "dickweeds" or "evil"? Fine, build your own shit then.

That’s reasonable, but don’t call it open source, because it isn’t.

I mean, it's not the same thing as an entirely unrestricted license, but then again, neither are open source licenses entirely unrestricted.

I understand that people want to look at this like a kind of slippery slope (if you can define one kind of restriction, why not define another and another - until you have closed source software by any other name) - but just because arbitrary restrictions mean something isn't colloquially "open" doesn't mean that certain specific restrictions might not still reasonably be compatible with something described as "open".

Certainly we should not accept a formalized definition of any language term like this; i.e. just because an OSI or other group wishes to claim the definition of open source doesn't mean we all need to use that definition. Specifically, let's not accept https://opensource.org/docs/osd as a kind of gospel truth. It's a fine initiative, but not necessarily the only possible one.

I'm not convinced that allowing a few restrictions would be a great idea, but then again, I'm also sure it would be dramatically different from the status quo, nor that is makes sense to no longer call such software open source.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#240

Post by rascul »

teddyh wrote: post #68
usui wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an example of a software with a license with more overt political views being directly stated in the agreement ? I'm NOT saying that it's wrong to have personal views, or to make a statement about what Mastodon feels about Trump's Truth Social, but I am curious if there is software in wide-use with something like "No anti-vaxxers". So far the most ideology-enforcing licenses I know are mainly about the battl…

IIRC, there were a lot of those licenses in the 1990s and early 2000s. They were mostly all weeded out in the license flame wars, largely initiated by system integrators and re-distributors who wanted to have a standardized set of licenses and not have to deal with any cute extra restrictions. Nowadays, software should use a license approved by OSI or FSF, or the software will find itself not being worth consideratio…

> Nowadays, software should use a license approved by OSI or FSF, or the software will find itself not being worth consideration.

I wonder if Mongo DB and Elasticsearch are currently learning this lesson.

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